Where do I go next with my little progression?

Hey all,

I came up with a little chord progression and melody but now I don't know where to go next....

Ex. I have this chord progression that is in 4/4 time that goes:

Bar 1: F (IV)

Bar 2: down to C (1st inv) (I)

Bar 3: up to G (V)

Bar 4: down to Dm (ii) then Em (iii) on the 4th beat (to transition back to F)

And this just kind of repeats its self....

Here is a video example (I suck butt so ignore the shitty music and try and focus on my question )

What area of music theory should I be looking up to figure out how to take this progression to "another part" of the song?

To me, my little chord progression sounds like a verse, what are some ways to come up with the next part of the song?

Please let me know if this is confusing and I will try to explain myself better

Thanks!

On a side note, how were you able to figure this out? I understand that the IV chord in a major scale is Lydian but from studying what theory did you understand or think of going to F major for the chorus?

Should I be looking into studying the Modes of Major and how they work?

Your verse chords are all in the key of C, but you begin on F and "transition" back to it (to use your word). So you are pretty firmly in F Lydian. The problem is that outside of jazz, some rock, and non-Western music, we don't really write music that is in Lydian. The reason is that it doesn't have a strong resolution. So, how are you going to get a stronger resolution? Well, you could do it in C. You could have a chorus that establishes C major (C Ionian) as home base. You would do that by having a strong G to C resolution. Another possibility, with more flavor, is to change keys. Easiest one is just to go to F major. You've already made F pretty important. So if we switch to F major for the chorus, we can stick with F, but have a strong resolution.

I can't really tell you what you should and shouldn't do. Some great records never would have been made if the musicians knew more theory, e.g., Dark Side of the Moon, a lot of U2. A much larger number of records would not have sucked so bad if the musicians knew more theory, e.g., most dance music and hip hop, almost any record where the drummer is the bandleader. So on balance, I would say theory is very good. It greatly improves the chance that one's music won't suck. And doesn't require endless days, weeks, and months of trial and error. But genius plays by its own rules.

Your verse chords are all in the key of C, but you begin on F and "transition" back to it (to use your word). So you are pretty firmly in F Lydian. The problem is that outside of jazz, some rock, and non-Western music, we don't really write music that is in Lydian. The reason is that it doesn't have a strong resolution. So, how are you going to get a stronger resolution? Well, you could do it in C. You could have a chorus that establishes C major (C Ionian) as home base. You would do that by having a strong G to C resolution. Another possibility, with more flavor, is to change keys. Easiest one is just to go to F major. You've already made F pretty important. So if we switch to F major for the chorus, we can stick with F, but have a strong resolution.

Here is where I think I confused myself.

When writing in a "key" of music, how come my little progression is considering "F Lydian" instead of "C maj starting on the fourth degree"?

Also, if I try to write the verse in the key of "C" and have the tonic be C, it sounds completely different/terrible....(Ex. start at C, go down a 4th, go up to V, then go to the ii then iii)

I ask this because as I try to come up with a chorus in "C", when i start it at C, it just sounds weird to me...I am tempted to try and start at a different note. Always starting on the 1, doesn't sound good to me. So because I started it on the 4th, why does it change the key the song is in?

Also, what is the reason I am suddenly allowed to write the chorus in the key of F major? (or switch the entire song to F major for that matter...?)

Is it because in the C major scale, the IV chord is major, and that IV chord happens to be F?

If this is doesn't make sense as to what I am trying to get across, I'll try to re-word it or make a video example

Here is where I think I confused myself.

When writing in a "key" of music, how come my little progression is considering "F Lydian" instead of "C maj starting on the fourth degree"?

"starting on the fourt degree" is more scale talk than chord talk, but here we are talking about a chord progression so we say F Lydian.

 

Also, if I try to write the verse in the key of "C" and have the tonic be C, it sounds completely different/terrible....(Ex. start at C, go down a 4th, go up to V, then go to the ii then iii)

 

It's a different progression. Not just in a different key/shifted up or down, but essentially different, so it will sound completely different.

 

 

Also, what is the reason I am suddenly allowed to write the chorus in the key of F major? (or switch the entire song to F major for that matter...?)

Is it because in the C major scale, the IV chord is major, and that IV chord happens to be F?

 

If this is doesn't make sense as to what I am trying to get across, I'll try to re-word it or make a video example

You are allowed to do whatever you want in music. Others are free to love it or hate it. Now, when changing keys one chooses closer keys more often than distant keys since they are easier to get to and provide enough variety to keep interest. But you could also go to any key you want. Techniques vary depending on how far you want to go. Easier to get to F than Gb. But anything is possible. How good it will sound depends on context. But there are methods that are taught.

Music is a lot like cooking. They really should just sell recipe books. Probably something like 100 ways to change keys. At least I vaguely remember coming up with that number once. Music theory is more like a collection of recipes than it is like physics. It has a lot of rough parts and some really ad-hoc features. It's far from unified. In the West, the most important thing is tri-tone resolution. Rest is secondary.

(P.S., my answer to your previous question was a bit lacking. For your purposes, I don't think it is worth going into the issue. I just mention it for anybody else who may be reading this. In short, Lydian looks like it should be more popular than other modes because it has a leading tone and actually has a V-I, but in actual fact it isn't as popular as three other modes in contemporary pop/rock. See Pericone's book and Wikipedia for further discussion.)

 

I ask this because as I try to come up with a chorus in "C", when i start it at C, it just sounds weird to me...I am tempted to try and start at a different note. Always starting on the 1, doesn't sound good to me. So because I started it on the 4th, why does it change the key the song is in?

 

Sorry, I forgot this question.

99% of songs have a home chord. We expect a song to get back to it. Songs don't always begin on the home chord, but they usually get there pretty quickly and they almost always end there. Why? Tri-tone resolution. G to C is more powerful than any other progression in the key of C. So C will feel like home.

In your verse, you are avoiding that resolution. So your verse meanders. That's not a criticism. Just a fact. It doesn't have any strong tension/release.

Play this: G7 to C. Bang it out loudly on the piano. Loud as you can. Now, try and come up with a resolution that is stronger using only the white keys.

I really appreciate you taking the time to go in depth and try and help me answer these questions. As its probably very apparent, theory is something I am struggling to grasp.

"In your verse, you are avoiding that resolution. So your verse meanders. That's not a criticism. Just a fact. It doesn't have any strong tension/release.

 

Play this: G7 to C. Bang it out loudly on the piano. Loud as you can. Now, try and come up with a resolution that is stronger using only the white keys."

Yes, I get what you are saying, in the sense that G7 resolves strongly to C but as I was playing around, I feel that the IV chord to I sounds stronger. Or even G7 - F - C

Here is a little video of me going from V to I then IV to I then V to IV to I:

Thoughts?

I have trouble hearing those videos for some reason.

Let's build it from the ground up.

Play a C note. Take middle C for example. Play it loud. Over and over. Now, find the note that resolves best to the C. We're just talking notes. What note do you think resolves best to middle C?

If I may, I doubt that it's that the IV-I really feels "stronger" to you, but that you like it more—the IV-I is a common enough resolution, (in fact, a V7-IV7-I7 is the end of the 12-bar blues progression [at least, barring an additional V7 for kicks]) but isn't stronger. Also, the point of the tonic, the I chord, is to have that "home" chord on which to land, which you aren't doing if you're going from V to I then to IV. You'd be better to compare IV-V-I to V-IV-I. (In fact, for some, it's easier to hear this in minor, so try a iv-V-i, compared to a V-iv-i.)

I like the way jster is explaining this, though, so I'll stay out of the way.

A book I highly recommend is Arnold Schoenberg's "Structural Functions of Harmony"

It's pretty heavy stuff but just a few chapters in my sense of harmony improved greatly

However I also have to say that while music theory is important, don't become too tied to it. Sometimes things completely outside will work great

I played around with your progression and what I ended up doing is, if I were transitioning to a chorus, instead of going to the Dm in bar 4, I did an A7 (4th inversion, G in the root) and then started the next cycle on a Bb major.

This sounded pleasant to me, but of course what sounds good is subjective

The point is, too theory, A7 doesn't seem appropriate

There is no C# (the 3rd of A7) in an F Lydian progression and an A7 would be expected to move to a D major (or D minor if you're doing D harmonic minor), so it's really function as a V/ii (Five chord of the 2nd degree)

However the modulation from F to Bb is rather pleasant as they are pretty closely related. The A7 just provides a nice surprising tension.

So yes, theory is good but don't be afraid to completely abandon it