Future of Logic/ ARM based MACS/ universal apps/ Logic on iPad pros?

There's too much business and industry which thrives on selling components to the end used for that to be the norm i feel. Apple want you locking your money into them, maybe. But outside of that i see modern technology enabling modders/enthuasists towards Raspberry PI/Arduino boards, and PC modding is huge too - Where would all that industry go?

 

Good point. That industry won't go away because of gaming.

I think though the majority of people want plug and play.

A songwriter doesn't wanna tinker with the correct driver for custom components, a gamer will.

But I never said the change will be soon. It'll take a while. We might have some surprises I believe.

 

Exactly. The tinkering kills my creativity. Would be nice to have Logic on both Mac and iOS.

iOS for creativity, instant access, etc and Mac for finishing up projects. In a way i am doing it this way.

IOS garageband projects open up in Logic.

Would be nice to see full Logic on iOS too.

If Apple are trying to create throw-away products, and slapping boutique price labels on it then they are going to dive head first into the ground.

 

Well, they're already doing that and people don't seem to bother much.

What if the SSD of your Mac (of whatever sorts) will die or start to slow down considerably? They're said to start showing such behaviours after 5-7 years. Apple usually doesn't support anything older than 5 years anymore and due to SSDs being soldered in but even moreso due to that excellent T2-chip, you won't be able to have it done by whomever, let alone yourself. In fact, Apple right now is sueing Louis Rossmann, a super qualified Apple repair dude in NYC, for replacing batteries in laptops because of this being counterfeit. The irony being that Apple themselves won't help these folks out. In other words: Apple wants you to throw away what could be a perfectly working machine after a rather simple repair procedure.

All that might be less of an issue with any desktop machines, but you will literally be ****ed when using a Macbook as a mobile device. So, all those 5-6k you've spent on a nicely upgraded Macbook Pro will be worth almost nothing anymore.

 

Reads a bit as if someone would make all this up just to make Apple look less shiny, right? But the truth is, that all this is happening right now. Soldered SSDs/RAM, rejected repair jobs, the T2 chip.

Louis is my hero...

Louis is my hero...

 

A colleague of mine gave his MBP to a friend who was visiting NYC for the sole purpose of having it repaired by Louis Grossmann, go figure.

There should be more folks of that mindset in the world.

What if the SSD of your Mac (of whatever sorts) will die or start to slow down considerably?

That's my bigger concern in regards to work, and why i've held on to the older Macs. I backup locally and to the cloud so the initial hardware failure just isn't an issue.

 

Not being able to be up and running again within hours IS a concern though. I have two spare internals sat here because they're just so cheap to keep hold of AND they'd fit straight in to any of my Mac's.

 

I guess the question is, how hard is it to boot from a USB/Thunderbolt drive in such a situation. I don't know as i've never tried it - for me, i'd want that internal running and back on a fixed install again well within 24 hours. Trouble of course, is even if it's easy/quick to have MacOS and your data back on an external, you're still only delaying the inevitable that it needs to go off for repair.

 

Further to that, to have a machine sent away and the drive replaced not only sounds expensive BUT a long wait too. I just don't know how that would work out in reality, i.e. what time scale we're looking at. And whether you need a certain level of care service to have that reduced etc.

 

As someone who likes to have all bases covered in regards to continuity/disaster plans, i just don't like the idea that i can't fix my own machine OR put it into the hands of someone i trust. If these machines were sold as the throw away units that they're sold then i'd just go out and buy a new one rather than waiting a week for repair.

 

And yes, the issue with Louis is really bad. This is all such a shame, i'm just hoping that they pull something out of the bag with the Mac Pro's, At least the Mini's have been a positive move, despite obvious teething problems. Until the bigger picture is revealed who knows, i do have ultimate trust in Apple as they've not failed me yet... But i'm hanging on with fingernails right now! :-/

If Apple are trying to create throw-away products, and slapping boutique price labels on it then they are going to dive head first into the ground.

 

Well, they're already doing that and people don't seem to bother much.

What if the SSD of your Mac (of whatever sorts) will die or start to slow down considerably? They're said to start showing such behaviours after 5-7 years. Apple usually doesn't support anything older than 5 years anymore and due to SSDs being soldered in but even moreso due to that excellent T2-chip, you won't be able to have it done by whomever, let alone yourself. In fact, Apple right now is sueing Louis Rossmann, a super qualified Apple repair dude in NYC, for replacing batteries in laptops because of this being counterfeit. The irony being that Apple themselves won't help these folks out. In other words: Apple wants you to throw away what could be a perfectly working machine after a rather simple repair procedure.

All that might be less of an issue with any desktop machines, but you will literally be ****ed when using a Macbook as a mobile device. So, all those 5-6k you've spent on a nicely upgraded Macbook Pro will be worth almost nothing anymore.

 

Reads a bit as if someone would make all this up just to make Apple look less shiny, right? But the truth is, that all this is happening right now. Soldered SSDs/RAM, rejected repair jobs, the T2 chip.

 

well, my old 2012 is 7 years old, and it didn't slow down.

i think the SSD is the least likely to fail and will probably outlive the average consumer, failure rates of SSDs are small.

they either fail soon because they're bad, or they last a LONG, LONG time.

 

don't get me wrong, i really appreciate that RAM can be replaced and i upgraded to 32GB myself - and would do so with anything, really, just pointing out that these particular concerns don't have much merit.

 

I guess the question is, how hard is it to boot from a USB/Thunderbolt drive in such a situation. I don't know as i've never tried it - for me, i'd want that internal running and back on a fixed install again well within 24 hours. Trouble of course, is even if it's easy/quick to have MacOS and your data back on an external, you're still only delaying the inevitable that it needs to go off for repair.

 

Further to that, to have a machine sent away and the drive replaced not only sounds expensive BUT a long wait too. I just don't know how that would work out in reality, i.e. what time scale we're looking at. And whether you need a certain level of care service to have that reduced etc.

 

it's easy to boot from thunderbolt external. you can even set it up as your primary boot source.

i boot regularly from USB external on both my mini and 13".

Fwiw, as far as Windows machines not performing as great as Macs go, you could as well watch some videos of Junkie XL. Just as one example:

For this guy, money doesn't matter. OS platform doesn't matter, either. In fact, he's using both. But for all the demanding stuff, it's Windows boxes. Same goes for Hans Zimmer. If you want a network of the most powerful machines, anything Apple has on offer isn't even remotely an option. Simply because Macs can't be configured to work in such a scenario. When you look at the machines racked up in the server room in the video above, the Macs in there are cheesegraters. Simply because that's the last truly professional computer Apple has built.

 

Disclaimer: I don't want to start a platform war. I like Logic and I like OSX. Perhaps as much as most of you folks (well, it's admittedly getting less with LPX for good reasons, but I'll still wait and see what they'll be doing with it...). But I can't stand false statements such as Windows computers not being up to satisfy the most professional demands.

So now that this has become reality, what do you all think about Logic on a ARM Mac? Could it have the same performance as the latest i9 from Intel?

I really need a new Mac. Mine is 11 years old.

I think i want to see how Logic will perform in a new machine, or should i go for the latest Intel? Will Apple support it for about 7 years?

or should i go for the latest Intel? Will Apple support it for about 7 years?

 

In case you buy a Mac Pro (and likely an iMac Pro), perhaps. In all other cases, it seems unlikely these days.

+1

when they released first intel mac, support for powerpc lasted for two years i think.

 

if i were shopping for a mac now, i'd get a cheaper used one in the meantime till ARM macs are released.

So now that this has become reality, what do you all think about Logic on a ARM Mac? Could it have the same performance as the latest i9 from Intel?

Quite different architecture - i think the single core performance is what's going to be most interesting for audio users, and also Logic's ability to spread the load across ARM multicores - perhaps even within the single channel strip?

 

Also of interest will be for plugins that currently rely on CPU instruction sets (AVX for example), will Apple create a software emulation layer/framework that they can seamlessly tap into? I really don't know, and if there's nothing for the devs to use it will delay development/support i guess(?).

 

Those developers who use third party (multiplatform) frameworks should be ok as the framework developers will ensure this is taken care off for them, which is really the benefit of modern computing.

 

I spend 90% of my time in a Win 10 environment now, so starting to feel on the outside of the Apple eco system, and because of that feeling of 'looking in' i'm quite excited to see what it brings. I used to have anxieties in regards to where Apple were going, and thus became hesitant on investing thousands into new hardware which ultimately lead me to Win 10 system, now i'm pretty chill about it.

 

My main concern is if they push MacOS to become more iOS orientated and limit options in regards to file management and system tweaks. I can very much see that being the path if they focus on security as being a prime objective. And i can see both sides of the coin on that subject.

 

However, in regards to performance i think it's clear from the iOS devices how efficient ARM can be. If they can get people optimising to the CPUs then overall it should smash an i9 out of the park in a short time because they can utilise more cores. However, it's that single core performance which is key for us.

 

I don't know a great deal about ARM CPU's but if it's not reliant on speed boost/stepping technology to balance performance vs heat (As Intel/x86-64 CPUs are) then we should see far more reliable 'always on' power akin Intel Xeons found in older Mac Pros, but housed in Mac Mini/Macbook formats. That is a really massive improvement for pro-grade apps users, and exciting prospect.

Thank you all. My 2009 MBR was supported for about 7 years with software updates. I expect the same from a modern Mac. I guess i have to wait and see how the new ARM Macs will perform with Logic. Not going to gamble with an Intel machine now if support life could be short. Everything will get optimized for ARM down the road probably. Intel chips will go to the back burner. Honestly my ultimate dream is an ipad pro with a better garageband or some version of Logic. I am not a recording engineer, i am more of an artist. I understand that an ipad pro/Logic setup won’t work for somebody who records and mixes for a living, but would be huge for artists. Will have to wait now.

I think Logic on ipad pro (Or whatever equivalent) is a nailed on certainty, this is a massive benefit of the hardware moving to similar architecture.

 

Question is whether they develop Logic into a universal app so it runs on anything, or a specific iOS (lite?) version that spans off.

 

I think Apple would like to push it as a universal app and then sell a unified 'iCloud pro' service whereby you get Logic, Final Cut and ~200/500GB of iCloud storage to keep all devices in sync. I don't think they'd have any problem coming in at $10/month too.

 

Otherwise i feel the price point would be too high for ipad only users, despite it being a desktop-class application.

 

And that's what really excites me with Apple pushing a closed eco system like this, across standard architecture. I fail to see how this isn't part of the plan.

 

BTW, Have you seen Cubase on ipad as an example of whats possible now by the way? It's a little pricey for an ipad app - but incredibly feature rich.

“BTW, Have you seen Cubase on ipad as an example of whats possible now by the way? It's a little pricey for an ipad app - but incredibly feature rich.“

 

Yes, actually have Cubasis 2 on my ipad and it is wonderful. I heard version 3 is even better. And it is running on my 2018 regular ipad. Runs fantastic. This just shows what a new ARM Mac would be capable of. Hopefully some version of Logic will come to at least the ipad pro. I am going to wait what happens with Logic and ARM Macs in the next 6-10 months and either get a new ipad pro or ARM Mac. Thanks for all your thoughts.

after 10 years use of imac 27 (2010) i changed to mac mini m1 , 

logic and final cut performances are great but 2 weeks ago my mac mini m1 wont start at all and bricked, 

ssd is gone !!!! and i cant do anything , just apple support + about 300$  and game start again !! 

im done with apple .

 

...warranty ?

Edited November 22, 2022 by fuzzfilth

22 hours ago, memokero said:

i changed to mac mini m1

Did you buy used?

If you purchase refurbished equipment from the "Refurbished and Clearance" section at apple.com, the "good as new" equipment that is available there is subject to exactly the same "bumper-to-bumper AppleCare® warranty" that is offered for brand-new equipment.  And this fact has "saved my bacon" many times: Apple's warranties are "good" anywhere in the world where Apple can be found.

(Actually, this is almost the only place that I have "purchased a Macintosh." That is to say, ummm...., since the time when this option first became available.)

If you purchased from someone else, you should find out at once what sort of warranty they offered you. And I wish you luck.

Edited November 23, 2022 by MikeRobinson

 

On 2/27/2019 at 11:06 AM, triplets said:

But I never said the change will be soon. It'll take a while. We might have some surprises I believe.

This year NAMM will be much later in the year. Greatly looking forward to some new third party software! Heard lots of rumors...

As far as bringing Logic to iOS ? Doesn't seem likely that would or could happen. Maybe and enhanced version on GarageBand, but I still don't see Apple wanting to port over all the possible problems on the iPad/iPhone but what do I know?

iOS is great for small tasks, the Logic Remote for iPad is really handy, noticed the latest version works all the way back to Mojave and Logic, of course I never had a new iPad till last year. Too damn expensive to keep buying the latest models every other year!

On 11/22/2022 at 2:20 PM, memokero said:

ssd is gone !!!! and i cant do anything , just apple support + about 300$  and game start again !! 

im done with apple .

 

I would never have anything smaller than a 1tb ssd internal ssd in 2023 and preferably with AppleCare. Whatever you do, back your data up on a normal schedule. 512gb is still too small and very frustrating to use unless you somehow run external which is not that easy to do these days on M1 and up...  Also quite frustrating to keep external drives plugged in at all times. Sometimes external drives have issues when using third party software, so this makes things even more difficult to run small internal ssd's for audio recording.

Yes, frustrating to hear you lost your M1 Mini but not that surprising, especially if it was a 256gb ssd. All ssd's fail in the long run, especially if they get too many files written and then erased quickly. Anything smaller that 1tb is too small to run a recording setup unless your planning on only doing the basics, nothing fancy.