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X-Touch Mini and Logic configuration?


MikeShapiro

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In case any of you tech geniuses have gotten an X-Touch Mini to work happily with Logic, help would be appreciated with the following dilemma:

 

Per instructions, I've configured the thing in MC mode as a Mackie Control Surface. Assigning buttons to Logic Key Commands seems easy. Go to key commands, hit Learn, etc.

 

What I can't figure out is how to assign knobs or the master fader to output a particular CC message. For example, I'd love to get the master fader to send CC1 (modulation).

 

(I even tried bringing the thing to a PC so I could use the Windows-only editor software. It doesn't seem to allow the configuration of MC mode.)

 

Any help would be appreciated!

 

Mike

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I don't know what the XTmini does out of the box, but often people get confused between the functions of a control surface, which is to control Logic's functions directly, verses a generic MIDI fader box, the purpose of which is to send various MIDI messages to do a variety of things, ether to record as MIDI data, or to control particular functions etc.

 

Generally, by default, you can do one thing, or the other, but not both, for technical reasons (though there are features in the MCU spec that can help here).

 

So if the XTmini is a mini MCU, with a limited but factory-set feature set, or you can use it as a generic MIDI fader box, then choose one behaviour - you can't really do both at the same time, without things getting complicated. It'd either a limited MCU, or it's a generic MIDI controller, in other words - pick the functionality that best suits your use case... With an MCU, you can't redefine what MIDI controls send, because these things are predefined in the spec.

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Thanks for the response!

 

The XTmini actually can be toggled between MC mode and a default mode that I presume is what you're calling a generic MIDI fader box. The trick is trying to get both kinds of functionality, as you say.

 

When in MC mode, the fader and knobs do *something*, just not what I want them to do. For example, the fader will control the Master Volume in Logic. Is there really no way to bend the rules here? I'm not above hacking configuration files and otherwise going under the hood.

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Yes - in MC mode, the buttons send the messages that Logic expects and is configured to react to. In general mode, you can make them send what you want - that's broadly the different between the two classes of device.

 

You can't do both, for technical reasons which I've explained elsewhere, but basically Logic treats MIDI received by these two classes of devices as different, so MIDI data coming in on a MIDI port defined as a control surface won't even get passed to the sequencer or be able to be recorded or MIDI-learned etc.

 

Yes, you *can* hack the MCU controller assignments - and this seems to be my primary purpose on this forum ;) - but it is not for the faint hearted, the MCU system is not intended to be modified, and if you don't know what you are doing (it's quite complex if you're not familiar with how control assignments work) you can easily break the MCU handling and mess things up.

 

But if you look at the MCU controller assignments and think "Yes, I love hacking deep into this stuff and redesigning it for my purposes", then you can do that. And if you are doing something trivial, it's likely reasonably straightforward.

 

We have many threads on MCU hacking here, if you search around. And if you want to make the master fader do something else, you can redefine the controller assignments that handle it, and use it for something else - be aware though that, depending on what you want to do, things can be more complex than you think.

 

If you have the right apptitude and like hacking and understand how to troubleshoot and implement and test your changes, you probably have the right tools for the job - so by all means get hacking. There's plenty of threads here in the forum on this if you want to read up on this - you won't find documentation of changing the MCU design as it's not something that is intended to be changed, really.

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One thought though. My former controller keyboard was a Nektar, which Logic recognized directly as a control surface. I could assign the knobs to arbitrary MIDI CC values *and* map the buttons to Logic key commands. Any idea why this unit was able to handle both kinds of interaction, whereas my XTouch can't?
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I don't have any experience with the Nektar. I do have a Launch Control XL though, and it has a great feature of sending control surface stuff (inbuilt HUI support) on a *separate* virtual MIDI port to the generic MIDI data (which in my case is acting like hacked MCU - it's complicated), so if the Nektar transmitted general MIDI on a different MIDI port that would do it, assuming you could record that CC MIDI data into regions.

 

Otherwise you can't, because Logic's control surface module and controller assignments layer simply block any MIDI data that it's not expecting as part of the MCU spec - so if the MCU handling doesn't use a CC118 message on channel 15, those messages would never pass through that virtual MIDI port and reach the sequencer.

 

For more specific data, I'd need to look exactly at what the Nektar was doing. It's also possible the Nektar had it's own proprietry control surface module (and not the MCU one that comes with Logic), that does indeed pass unneeded data through to Logic - it's difficult to say without looking at it directly.

 

All I can say is that I'm pretty experienced with Logic's MCU support and handling, so I'm fairly confident in this stuff, and try not to steer people wrong - which is why I often say to people who think they want to start hacking the MCU "understand what you're getting into" before you start sticking the screwdriver into the computer, pulling out wires and connecting wires to other circuit boards, which is kinda what you're doing by going this route.

 

And of course, importantly - make sure you backup known good controller assignments!

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Actually... one more question.

 

What about the other route? If I put the controller in non-MC, Dumb MIDI Thing Mode, which allows me to configure the knobs and fader to my heart's content, is there any way to get Logic to associate buttons with key commands? Can key commands be triggered by any MIDI data outside the control surface system?

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The X-Touch mini has to be one of the worst designed and supported control surfaces ever.

Apart from the missing Mac editor it is for example not possible to define the buttons as just Program Changes; they always send Bank Select as well.

 

Using the X-Touch mini as a "dumb" faderbox kinda defeats its unique selling point though: giving visual feedback and "picking up" changes exactly at the current setting.

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