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MIDI Device behaving incorrectly within Logic


Breenfactor

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Hello, everyone

 

I have a Behringer X-Touch One and I am encountering some weird issues with its use within Logic.

First off, the device uses MCU Pro and it's perfectly set up in Logic following the manufacturer's instructions.

Now, the actual issues are: the device is registering the pressing of some specific buttons as if they were pressed more than once.

For example, the STOP button should shop the playhead at the location it's at in that particular moment (just like any stop buttons in the world), but it actually takes the playhead to the very beginning of the project, which is what it should do when the button is pressed TWO times, not just once.

And this is the same for the rewind and forward buttons, and the channel selection arrows. They all act as they were being pressed more than once, but they aren't.

I then proceeded to open the MIDI monitor on my Mac and check if the messages were registering multiple times. Inside the MIDI monitor the device works just fine, with proper note ON and note OFF 127/0 when pressing said buttons just once. The manufacturer told that then the problem must be within Logic, as the MIDI monitor shows that the device is working normally.

 

Could somebody please help me out with this? I am not nearly as experienced with Logic as you guys are so I am probably missing something to do within the DAW to fix this.

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I am actually happy that I found another XT-One Logic user! This gives me some hope.

So here it is:

- The device is in MC Logic and set up as MCU Pro inside Logic

- The firmware is the latest I could find, which is 1.08

- About the MIDI ports I don't really know. The device itself doesn't specify any, and also, you cannot choose them within Logic Control Surface preferences if using MCU Pro. But the MIDI channel the device is sending message through is Channel 1, both in Logic and Midi Monitor.

- I deleted the device setup within Logic and reinstalled it but nothing changed. Don't know about other CS preferences.

 

Also, did you use the Windows editor for it?

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- About the MIDI ports I don't really know. The device itself doesn't specify any, and also, you cannot choose them within Logic Control Surface preferences if using MCU Pro.

 

?

Select the control surface icon for the XT in the control surface setup window, and view the MIDI ports it's using in the inspector.

 

Don't know about other CS preferences.

 

As I said, try trashing the CS preferences, you might have something interfering with something.

Is it connected via USB hub?

 

Also, did you use the Windows editor for it?

 

No, I'm not sure why I would want to. That has nothing to do with MCU mode, which is a predefined protocol...

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Here's the screenshot of the Control Surface setup. Does it look like everything is in order?

 

I wouldn't actually know how to trash CS pref like you are suggesting. You mean deleting the surface from within the Control Surface setup?

 

It is connected via USB, to a hub which also has my XT Compact plugged in and it works just fine.

128371230_ScreenShot2021-11-29at16_25_59.thumb.png.c6358f2b6257bb0a7183cfe8751f6c84.png

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Here's the screenshot of the Control Surface setup. Does it look like everything is in order?

 

Yep, looks ok. I'm on FW version 1.07 BTW, as 1.0.8 only had a Windows-related change. You could try downgrading to 1.0.7 to see if that makes a difference.

 

I wouldn't actually know how to trash CS pref like you are suggesting. You mean deleting the surface from within the Control Surface setup?

 

No, it means deleting, or temporarily moving to check, your control surface preference file in your preferences folder - "com.apple.logic.pro.cs" in ~/Library/Preferences/

 

This will reset all your control surface preferences to their default. When you reinstall the XTone, if the behaviour doesn't change with a new fresh installation, then you can put your old CS prefs back in place as you've now eliminated that as a possible cause.

 

It is connected via USB, to a hub which also has my XT Compact plugged in and it works just fine.

 

And when you tried connecting it directly, and not through the hub, did the behaviour change?

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Do *all* controls seem to be hit twice? If you only see one MIDI event, then I suspect something funky going on with your MIDI routing on your computer. Do you have things like the IAC bus active, and/or some other MIDI routing software, such as MIDIpipe, or other applications that can route MIDI active? It's possible something on your computer is echo data around or copying it to different MIDI ports, and this is confusing Logic.

 

Try using a MIDI monitor, and sniff both the output of your XTone, and the input of Logic to see if there are data differences. Try "disconnecting" either the input or the output of the MCUpro device in the control surface setup window. And check your Audio/MIDI Setup Utility in case you have some other MIDI routings set up in there.

 

If you still get no joy, we can troubleshoot further. Note - when you say "moved the pref file", you did this while Logic was closed, and then started Logic, and verified there was nothing in your control surface setup window and no controller assignments before readding the XTone?

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So, let's analyze it:

The only XTOne buttons that behave like they are being hit twice are the STOP button, the FORWARD button, the REWIND button and the arrows beside the jog wheel to browse through the tracks.

In the MIDI monitor utility I press said buttons and the register just once (On and Off) giving some notes as data (like A5, C6, etc).

Inside Logic, in its own MIDI monitor on the lcd, they give different data (like 1 for the channel and then some random numbers or notes which are different from the ones monitored through Mac's own MIDI monitor), I don't know if it's supposed to work like that.

As far as I know I do not use any IAC bus or other MIDI routing softwares, but still I am not expert at all on that side. So I don't know if something is actually happening without me knowing about it.

 

I would like to know how to to check for other MIDI routings like you are saying, in order to effectively troubleshoot this. It's driving me pretty crazy and also thought about selling the device if it still behaves like this on my Logic.

 

Lastly yes, I moved the pref file like you suggested and did so with Logic being quit.

891154953_ScreenShot2021-11-30at22_38_05.thumb.png.346fe8bbdfb21f33c28b23cc840d38fb.png

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Can you post a screenshot of the assignment of the play button (ie open the controller assignments window, then press play on the xt one and the assignment for that command should be shown. I’d like to see the assignment details (it’s probably ok, but worth checking).

 

Yes, it’s normal for Logic to send data back the the MCU, it’s how the lights and displays work…

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Key repeat means that the button will continue to send messages while you hold it down. It this was on, and you were holding the button, rather than just a quick press, then maybe it would continue to send messages - but this seems strange, as you said when you tapped play there would only be one MIDI message sent... Unless Logic repeats that command until it gets the "off" MIDI message when the key is released - I'll check the behaviour here...
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Ok I checked here and key repeat on those commands is on by default. If Logic is playing, and I *hold* the stop button, then it will stop, and then reset as if the key is pressed twice, because the key command is being repeated while I hold the key.

 

However, I've never had a problem with this, as when I press stop I've never held it for long enough to trigger a repeated key press. So if you are holding the buttons rather than just pressing them, that is why you got the behaviour you saw, and is "normal" in that they will all do this (MCU too). And unchecking the key repeat on those assignments will prevent this from happening, so you can hold the transport keys without repeated commands happening.

 

Note: It's possible that your key repeat rate on your Mac is set very fast, so a key repeat for you happens a lot quicker than it does for me - I have to hold the stop button for about 1/3 second to trigger the second key repeat.

 

Mine is set like this:

 

28114181_Screenshot2021-11-30at22_58_13.png.b359662c8c5504755454c399d5402b32.png

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So, I set the keyboard preferences just like yours (mine were only set different in Delay Unit Repeat).

I tried different settings for each of those buttons which weren't working properly and I ended up with actually making them behave as intended. All of them. So I definitely wanted to really thank you for your help, Des! You've been great!

And since you too work with XTOne and Logic, I actually wanted to ask you another little thing:

I would like to use the fader to write automation of any kind (except Modulation and Expression and Vibrato, for them I use my XTCompact), but it seems like it only works with Volume Automation.

Would you know how to work this out?

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I would like to use the fader to write automation of any kind (except Modulation and Expression and Vibrato, for them I use my XTCompact), but it seems like it only works with Volume Automation.

Would you know how to work this out?

 

Indeed I would! :)

 

It was one of the first hacks I did - I went through the details here (start at the very bottom of this page and through the next page):

https://gearspace.com/board/apple-logic-pro/1273003-considering-x-touch-one-use-logic-pro-x-4.html

 

There is one wrinkle in that stopping the snap back of the fader requires a solution (I detail mine in the post) and I might end up making a little app to do this. But basically the way it works is that when you press master, the fader now controls AQA and can see used to write automation for any parameter.

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Des99 you are always full of resources! :D

 

So, I read through the whole 4th and 5th page, but since I am not nearly an expert on CS assignments and MIDI messages like you guys in the thread, I found myself having quite some trouble properly understanding the steps I should follow to make this work on my XTOne.

So basically if I understand correctly, I should push the Master Level button on my XTOne and set it up working as AQA, am I right? Still, it's not really that intuitive for someone with little knowledge of this like myself. Here's the screenshot of my CS Assignment panel for said Master Level, hoping that you could kindly guide me through the steps to make this work!

1848329063_ScreenShot2021-12-01at13_46_31.thumb.png.39e55bbec4cdecf19b78e37316a6efce.png

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It's not really intuitive because changing/hacking the MCU assignments to change behaviour is not really a consumer-level modification - it's more like opening it up, analysing the circuit behaviour, and rewiring some components to act differently etc.

 

The specific steps, and order are documented in this post:

https://gearspace.com/board/showpost.php?p=15611576&postcount=144

 

If you have difficulty with any particular step, I can explain further, but you do somewhat need to know what you are doing. Just take it step by step, understand what you are doing, and you shouldn't have problems. Most of those steps are explained in that thread as we were working out how best to achieve this.

 

Note that for me, the fader won't follow existing automation, but did for cowudders, for no explicable reason I could find. I don't find this a big deal though, and having the ability to use the fader to write automation is a win in terms of device functionality.

 

If it's tricky to deal with, you might be better just using the XTone as is, and you won't have to deal with modifying, backing up and reinstalling your CS prefs when things go funky, and running MidiPipe (I may end up making a little Mac app utility to perform this loopback task to prevent fader resets as running MP and loading the preset is a bit annoying - bit it's not a high priority at this point).

 

Give it a go, you'll probably learn more how it works by trying, which is a bonus extra. LIke I say, if you're struggling on a particular step, post back and I'll try to help.

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Ok, let's get started.

Two things: will MidiPipe need to be open in the background all the time when I am working with Logic?

And also, do you think there could be a way just to set the master fader to control AQA using Logic's SCA? Because I was messing up with it and though that maybe, by just changing certain parameters, it could all be achievable.

On the other hand, I ended up messing up my master fader parameters on XTOne and now it doesn't control Volume anymore and it resets back to 0 after 2 secs.

Also, I am not able to enter a specified parameter for it in the CSA.

Here's the SC

984764695_ScreenShot2021-12-01at17_27_38.thumb.png.e86c426095292843bbc7263f1717b8cf.png

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Two things: will MidiPipe need to be open in the background all the time when I am working with Logic?

 

Yes - this question suggests you don't quite understand the need for it and what it's doing at this point. The other thread will go through what it is and and why it's needed.

 

And also, do you think there could be a way just to set the master fader to control AQA using Logic's SCA?

 

What's SCA? Are you referring to smart controls?

 

Because I was messing up with it and though that maybe, by just changing certain parameters, it could all be achievable.

 

To really hack the MCU stuff, you need to really dig deep. The XTone does not access any of the plugin parameters directly, like the full MCU does. It does not support any plugin/instrument editing modes, and cannot access them with the fader - and without some intelligent handler, you won't be able to "hack" the XTone to meaningfully control plugin parameters in any meaningful way - the AQA method is really the best and easiest solution to integrate plugin value editing/automation on such a device.

 

If you want to edit/automate plugins generally, this is not the device for that - the full X-Touch or a proper MCU is required.

 

Could you control a smart control by creating/editing assignments etc? - yes, but I don't think there is a way of easily changing which parameter you are controlling, so you'd always be controlling smart control #1, which isn't that useful. The AQA approach is imo the best that you can do with this controller.

 

On the other hand, I ended up messing up my master fader parameters on XTOne and now it doesn't control Volume anymore and it resets back to 0 after 2 secs. Also, I am not able to enter a specified parameter for it in the CSA.

 

Yes, the fader snap back is what the MIDIpipe utility solves, due to the way the XTone is implemented (again, all details are in the other thread.)

 

I'm not sure what your second question means, sorry...

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With SCA I mean Surface Control Assignment panel, as it's the only thing I am messing with.

I have no problem in trying the solution you suggested using MidiPipe, but I would like to know if there will be any downsides implementing it, as far as workflow is concerned.

I am definitely happy with having managed to solve the initial issues with those buttons registering multiple times, that was really a lifesaver, and now in order to have everything set perfectly to the way I like it, I just need to be able to use that Master Level in XTOne to write automation.

So if you tell me there won't be any issue implementing MidiPipe in my workflow, I could certainly give it a shot!

 

P.S. The master fader before I messed up with the Controller Assignment panel was behaving "correctly", meaning that the fader would control Master Volume in Logic and would not reset to 0 after 2 secs.

But apparently now I am not able to make it go back that way.

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With SCA I mean Surface Control Assignment panel, as it's the only thing I am messing with.

 

I'm not sure to what you are referring. Do you mean the Controller Assignments window? That is where you alter, and learn assignments in Logic.

 

I have no problem in trying the solution you suggested using MidiPipe, but I would like to know if there will be any downsides implementing it, as far as workflow is concerned.

 

You have to run MIDIpipe in the background, and select your saved "pipe" preset, so that the XTone doesn't snap back it's fader while working in Logic. Other than first loading it up, there is nothing else to do.

 

So if you tell me there won't be any issue implementing MidiPipe in my workflow, I could certainly give it a shot!

 

It definitely makes the XTone more useful, implementing AQA in this way, especially as imo the master fader functionality is no big deal to lose. As I said in the other thread, I could probably hack it to do both, but I haven't found it necessary so far. But I might make a little app to handle this, as it would be easier all round, easier than running MIDIpipe manually, and would not require any specific controller assignments editing. But that's not happening this week ;)

 

P.S. The master fader before I messed up with the Controller Assignment panel was behaving "correctly", meaning that the fader would control Master Volume in Logic and would not reset to 0 after 2 secs. But apparently now I am not able to make it go back that way.

 

You've probably edited/changed it's assignment, then (which is necessary for this to work). Are you saying you don't want to implement this AQA automation hack, and want the master fader to revert to it's original functionality, but don't know what the assignment was? I'm again not really sure what you are asking.

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- Yep, that's the one.

 

- Ok, so now I'll install MidiPipe and then I'll try to follow the three line script you posted on Gearspace's thread.

 

- Yes, I have no doubt about it making the XTOne more useful and functional. And as far as I have "learned", MidiPipe could result in a useful tool in many occasions.

I just tend to ask many question about some software because the last thing I would like is to mess something to a point of no return, since I am still a rookie as far as technical aspects are concerned, ahah. Hope you'll understand :D

 

- No, I still want to be able to implement the AQA automation hack. Don't really care about having the Master Fader on the XT ahaha. And yes, I surely edited something which resulted in the remotion the "Volume" under Parameter setting in the Control Assignment window. And now that is gone, Logic apparently doesn't let you type in a Parameter value.

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So here are the screenshot for the MidiPipe script I am trying to replicate from you.

- I inserted MIDI IN as XTOne

2093430666_ScreenShot2021-12-01at19_49_23.thumb.png.73fe6485e6194387056a82e8898b00d4.png

- Inserted Channel Filter and clicked only on CH 9

1896692377_ScreenShot2021-12-01at19_49_31.thumb.png.5c3b8e12505ea7076cf58d44e7652a99.png

- Inserted MIDI OUT as XTOne with Pass Through

953555323_ScreenShot2021-12-01at19_49_46.thumb.png.049095bc70d5db37e3d111ba59d909fe.png

 

Please, let me know if this is correct so far, Des!

 

On a side note, I'll also attach a screenshot of MIDI Monitor when the fader is moved while in Master Mode.

Could you tell me if those messages are correct and expected or is something weird going on?

482226953_ScreenShot2021-12-01at19_51_26.thumb.png.f6b3070d8a8e0df51cb3d5b8029704cf.png

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Please, let me know if this is correct so far, Des!

 

Yep, looks good (uncheck "pass through") in the last step.

 

On a side note, I'll also attach a screenshot of MIDI Monitor when the fader is moved while in Master Mode.

Could you tell me if those messages are correct and expected or is something weird going on?

 

Not sure why would you think something weird is going on?

The MIDI messages the XTone sends in that mode are baked into the firmware, they are not going to change...

 

The note on and off are when you touch and release the fader, and the pitch bend messages are how the MCU encodes 10-bit fader messages.

All on channel 9, which refers to the master fader on the MCU (channels 1-8 are for the main 8 faders in the MCU).

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Not sure why would you think something weird is going on?

The MIDI messages the XTone sends in that mode are baked into the firmware, they are not going to change...

 

Yes, you're right. I guess it was just me being a touch too paranoid about it as at this point my head is kinda on alert about all the possible MIDI relations and whatnot, ahaha

 

I removed the pass through as you suggested.

 

I then started Logic and did as you said, that is opening the Automation Preferences and Enabling Automation Quick Access moving the fader in Master Level mode to learn.

But it doesn't work. The goal should be that with this hack the CH9 fader would now be able to control every automation parameter I select on a track, am I right?

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I then started Logic and did as you said, that is opening the Automation Preferences and Enabling Automation Quick Access moving the fader in Master Level mode to learn.

But it doesn't work. The goal should be that with this hack the CH9 fader would now be able to control every automation parameter I select on a track, am I right?

 

Ok, turn off AQA. Open the controller assignments, and move the fader in master mode. Whatever assignment the master fader is assigned to will be displayed - can you make a screen shot of this assignment, and also show me the AQA assignment too...?

 

I'd guess your master fader assignment is still active, and is thus overriding the AQA assignment.

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The AQA assignment is a controller assignment, and is displayed/edited in the controller assignments window just like all controller assignments are.

It's probably in the "No Zone" zone, in the top "No Mode" menu. Or "Edit" as you mention will probably take you right there.

 

I'll check that assignment shortly, sorry doing ten things at once atm...

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