MattLeschuck Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 As i have mentioned in other threads ive started, im beginning to dive more into Logic as of recently. I have owned it since the start of version 9 and have dabbled from time to time. One thing i have noticed with the recent versions is i often get crashes on startup when its trying to load certain plugins. Reason and PT never crash on start up for me and im finding this a bit annoying. Just today, im trying to get into a session i was working on yesterday and I cant get it to open without crashing. Crash report says it has something to do with Synapse's Dune 3 that i am using. Computer is a 2018 mac mini with Mojave 10.14.6 loaded. Any info here is appreciated as things like this are making me a bit apprehensive to make the full switch to Logic for music creation. It seems to be happening somewhat regularly. Yesterday it was the Reason Rack plugin causing it to crash, today its Synapse. I have also tried opening a blank session first than opening my current session under recent, still doesnt work. Any info or tips here would be appreciated. Process: Logic Pro X [11073] Path: /Applications/Logic Pro X.app/Contents/MacOS/Logic Pro X Identifier: com.apple.logic10 Version: 10.5.1 (5299) Build Info: MALogic-5299000000000000~3 App Item ID: 634148309 App External ID: 835960408 Code Type: X86-64 (Native) Parent Process: ??? [1] Responsible: Logic Pro X [11073] User ID: 501 PlugIn Path: /Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/DUNE3.component/Contents/MacOS/DUNE3 PlugIn Identifier: com.audiounit.SynapseAudio.DUNE3.au PlugIn Version: 3.2 (3.2) Date/Time: 2020-10-21 08:14:16.045 -0700 OS Version: Mac OS X 10.14.6 (18G103) Report Version: 12 Bridge OS Version: 4.6 (17P6610) Anonymous UUID: 8191A25F-3C6D-FE6E-509A-81CF705B418E Sleep/Wake UUID: CF024075-0BE1-4E05-B274-D5FEBD35D9FE Time Awake Since Boot: 89000 seconds Time Since Wake: 150 seconds System Integrity Protection: enabled Crashed Thread: 0 Dispatch queue: com.apple.main-thread Exception Type: EXC_BREAKPOINT (SIGTRAP) Exception Codes: 0x0000000000000001, 0x0000000000000000 Exception Note: EXC_CORPSE_NOTIFY Termination Signal: Trace/BPT trap: 5 Termination Reason: Namespace SIGNAL, Code 0x5 Terminating Process: exc handler [11073] Application Specific Information: MALondonIV | 55c921e417d7ea46dd67c836dd0d3ea5353ba77f7e81b63db63248334585cbae | 45b84f1d96484be8b35b202bcd817966285356bf | 2020-06-09_13:15:32 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 There have been a few reports here of people having random plugin crashes. I think this might be related to 10.5.x's new handling of plugin validation, and I'm hoping this will be fixed/improved in a Logic update. I had my first taste of this kind of weirdness just now - I was opening a project, and Logic crashed, reporting the cause was a plugin called "CantTutThis". I have no such plugin in the project, nor my plugin directories, and nor do I recognise it. So this led me off to a little Google hunt where a few other people report crashes with this seemingly unknown plugin. After some hacking on my filesystem, it turns out this is iLok related. In plugins that are protected by iLok, they are wrapped by a software layer, and it seems that if this basic initial decryption fails, for whatever reason, the code reports the crash and identifies the plugin as "CantTutThis" - presumably because the contents of the plugin haven't yet been decrypted and thus can't be read, and my guess would be the name is a snarky nod at hackers trying to attempt to break/decrypt the iLok Eden protection. I found this "CantTutThis" reference in various plugins on my system - SoundToys, Softube, UVI, TC - all plugins that are protected by iLok. So - for future googlers looking for "CantTutThis" - it's iLok-protection related, it's not a plugin called this - but it's an iLok-protected plugin crashing during init. So - I *do* have some of these plugins in the project I was trying to load - likely SoundToys in this case (EffectRack, LittlePlate, EchoBoy Jr etc) - and it was probably one of these that (randomly) crashed while loading. I've never had one of these plugins fail before, so I guess this is another of those random plugin crashes people are reporting. It's possible something weird happened with the iLok protection, but perhaps there's something weird going on with plugin initialising in 10.5.x... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattLeschuck Posted October 21, 2020 Author Share Posted October 21, 2020 Thanks for the reply. My current work around for this is to open a blank session and load Dune 3 into that. I can then open my actual session im working on that contains Dune 3. Annoying but works for now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphonz Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Whadaya know this totally works! I really hope this gets fixed soon, it's effecting a whole host of plugins I must have paid £1,000's for. It's just not good enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted November 8, 2020 Share Posted November 8, 2020 Thanks for the workaround. It seems once the plugins have instantiated correctly, they may continue to load correctly after that, rather than crash. Good to know! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cowudders Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 just a heads up - i've the exactly same problem on 10.4.8, went crazy looking for a resolution, that's so f-ed up. in my crash report there are always lots of pace threads running, the invasive pace seems to somehow 'corrupt memory' or something like this which makes plug-ins or logic crash.. i wrote ilok, please also do so: support@ilok.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbertune Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Just to refresh this thread, I'm now seeing this "CantTutThis" crash on a project I'd been working on all last week. Now it won't load, and crashes with this odd error every time. I did try to contact iLok support and they were quick to shut me down and claim they had NOTHING to do with it, and according to them I need to contact "The Plugin Developer", even though I tried to explain to them that there is no such plugin as 'CantTutThis' and this crash appears to be protection related... They refused to assist, or even to say if they have ever heard of this error before. Grrr. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Yes, this is the Pace issue, and no, they won't deal with end users, as Pace's customers are the developers, not the end users. The workaround discussed above can help resolve this, but ultimately, we need a new version of the Pace software that doesn't cause the issue, or plugin developers to implement workarounds to minimise the problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbertune Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Yes, this is the Pace issue, and no, they won't deal with end users, as Pace's customers are the developers, not the end users. The workaround discussed above can help resolve this, but ultimately, we need a new version of the Pace software that doesn't cause the issue, or plugin developers to implement workarounds to minimise the problem. Cool - and thanks for the reply. I guess the 'catch' is that I can't figure out which plugin is triggering the crash, so I don't know which developer to bug. And PACE or iLok won't deal with it either. So far I've tried opening a blank project first, and instantiating plugins from all the 'suspect' companies. THEN trying again to open the project that keeps crashing. I just went through all the SoundToys and Softube plugs, but the project still crashes. So I guess I just have to keep working through the plugin companies in my folder until I find 'the one'. Are there key shortcuts I can use during Logic startup that will prevent plugins from loading? that way I might at least be able to load my troublesome Mix Project and take note of what the most recent plugins are that might have triggered this error. It's an annoying bug to be sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphonz Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Can you hunt down the name or file path if you take a look through the crash log when it happens? Thats how I worked around it. It's stopped happening to me now as I think most plugin developers have released updated versions - make sure you have the latest everything, especially waves v12 or higher I think. I guess it may not be a pace issue but a plugin developer issue... who knows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I guess it may not be a pace issue but a plugin developer issue... who knows! Yes, it's a Pace issue, as confirmed by Fabfilter devs, as mentioned above and on other threads on this issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphonz Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 I guess it may not be a pace issue but a plugin developer issue... who knows! Yes, it's a Pace issue, as confirmed by Fabfilter devs, as mentioned above and on other threads on this issue. Oh yeah I did see that actually, but FabFilter fixed it with an update, clearly they're more responsive than some.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Oh yeah I did see that actually, but FabFilter fixed it with an update, clearly they're more responsive than some.... Well, they implemented a workaround in their plugins so their plugins wouldn't crash if this happened. But yes, it's a Pace issue that hopefully they are aware of and will be fixed. There will be a new version of Pace's software coming soon now that supports the M1, so fingers crossed this issue will go away with those new versions... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbertune Posted January 14, 2022 Share Posted January 14, 2022 Interesting. As for 'hunting down the filepath', I don' t think there's a way for me to do that. I took a look through the Logic crash report and it was pretty much "thread 0 crashed" and I couldn't find any mention of a specific plugin returning an error, or any mention of filepaths to anything specific. But maybe I'm just not that adept at reading crash reports. Luckily I just got the project to load, which it seems to do rather randomly. I don't see any plugins I'm using that are out of the ordinary, just my usual selection of Waves, UAD, PluginAlliance, Sonnox and IK Multimedia stuff for the most part. THey're part of my basic template in almost every project I have, yet this is the only one causing the 'CantTutThis' so often. Hm. The mystery continues... And I'm not on an M1 Mac (actually my main machine these days is a Hackintosh...!) But fingers crossed that a PACE update will clear this error. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 If you read around what we're already posted about this, you'll see that whatever iLok-protected plugin is crashing isn't necessarily the one causing the problem - it's some *other* plugin that corrupts memory, and then some other plugin *may* crash as a result of that corruption (which is why the behaviour is random). So finding the plugin mentioned in the crash log isn't actually where the problem is. Like I say, have a look at the plugins in your session that are iLok-protected, and use the workaround above to try to load them first, and once done, try loading the project afterwards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphonz Posted January 15, 2022 Share Posted January 15, 2022 Yeah, try loading all the plugins into an empty project, then load your project without closing logic, no need save the empty project. From my research it’s something to do with the namespace being taken by another plugin that causes one to crash. Opening the plugin first makes sure the name space is reserved. For me it was happening with plug-in alliance and waves plugins (never with the sonox ones) and updates to plug-in alliance plugins definitely helped. I’m also on a hackingtosh! I know how frustrating it is but hopefully you’ll get there, it hasn’t happened to me for some time now following updates of the exact plugin brands you mention (except IK multimedia, I don’t have their stuff) Good luck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbertune Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 If you read around what we're already posted about this, you'll see that whatever iLok-protected plugin is crashing isn't necessarily the one causing the problem - it's some *other* plugin that corrupts memory, and then some other plugin *may* crash as a result of that corruption (which is why the behaviour is random). So finding the plugin mentioned in the crash log isn't actually where the problem is.. Good advice, thanks. But the weird thing is that this particular crashing project uses most of the same plugins that are in my default template... and that's quite ALOT of plugins. But since they load without issue in so many other projects, I guess it's safe to assume the crash is caused by something 'outside' my normal template assortment. I know that in this particular mix I started messing around with more drum replacement, etc, so there were instances of Slate Trigger and even old 'Drumagog'... but I've updated both of those without incident. And they seem to run fine in other projects i've tested. And as I've said, I've already gone through most of the Softube and SoundToys plugs without any 'hits'. The other 'suspect' is that I have a weird Waves bug where it keeps trying to load a few instruments I demoed once but never purchased. And every time I start Logic I have to tell it to "Ignore All" of those libraries I don't own (and which cant' be found in Plugin Manager because they're part of the 'WaveShell'...) But again, this error happens on every single project I have and yet they load fine. It's only this one mix that keeps giving me "CantTutThis". Days like this I miss tape decks and a big ol' analog mixer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Like I say, this is a random thing where only in some cases does this Pace bug corrupt memory space that is also being used by another plugin. That's why the crashes are random. The "CantTutThis" error is Pace's protection when the encrypted plugin code can't be unpacked and run. It's not just a simple case where one plugin in one template is problematic. It might be fine when you load that project 19 times out of 20, and crash on the 20th... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbertune Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Right, but in this case this particular project causes the 'CantTutThis' crash 19 times out of 20... which makes me think there must be some specific plugin unique to that project that's causing it, no? And since I don't see the crash on ANY other project or template, I'm guessing it's one of the plugs I use less often that must be the instigator. This particular Mix project is pretty reliable at producing this 'random' crash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 No. It could depend on the order plugins are loaded in, for instance. MAny factors. The only workaround I’ve seen is the one where you load the plugins first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphonz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Right, but in this case this particular project causes the 'CantTutThis' crash 19 times out of 20... which makes me think there must be some specific plugin unique to that project that's causing it, no? And since I don't see the crash on ANY other project or template, I'm guessing it's one of the plugs I use less often that must be the instigator. This particular Mix project is pretty reliable at producing this 'random' crash. Does it still crash if you load a new project using your template then from there open your problem project, selecting close and don’t save for the new project. This would load all of those plugins and reserve the namespace. If it still crashes you for certain a plugin not in that template is to blame. I would get on to waves support if you can and clear that up to. Weird waves things were a big culprit of my crashes. Most went away after I cleared out old waves versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphonz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Right, but in this case this particular project causes the 'CantTutThis' crash 19 times out of 20... which makes me think there must be some specific plugin unique to that project that's causing it, no? And since I don't see the crash on ANY other project or template, I'm guessing it's one of the plugs I use less often that must be the instigator. This particular Mix project is pretty reliable at producing this 'random' crash. Does it still crash if you load a new project using your template then from there open your problem project, selecting close and don’t save for the new project? This would load all of those plugins and reserve the namespace. If it still crashes you know for certain a plugin not in that template is to blame. I would get on to waves support if you can and clear that up to. Weird waves things were a big culprit of my crashes. Most went away after I cleared out old waves versions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timbertune Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Yes, it still crashes after I've loaded and closed my default template (which was the same template originally used as the starting point for the problem project in question). As for Waves, they've already given me some tips on how to reset things, but since it's a full uninstall and re-install I've been putting it off... maybe now that I have this crazy 'CantTutThis' bug, I may have to spend an afternoon fixing my Waves problem, and maybe reinstall all my PluginAlliance plugs as well. But it DOES seem odd that all my other projects, which use plenty of Waves plugs, open and work fine. It's just this ONE song that has now reliably started hanging with CantTutThis. The mystery continues, but I have another project to finish this week, so I'm gonna have to put it off for a while. I keep making backups of everything just to be safe... This board is very helpful though. THANKS ALL for your input and advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ralphonz Posted January 16, 2022 Share Posted January 16, 2022 Yes, it still crashes after I've loaded and closed my default template (which was the same template originally used as the starting point for the problem project in question). As for Waves, they've already given me some tips on how to reset things, but since it's a full uninstall and re-install I've been putting it off... maybe now that I have this crazy 'CantTutThis' bug, I may have to spend an afternoon fixing my Waves problem, and maybe reinstall all my PluginAlliance plugs as well. But it DOES seem odd that all my other projects, which use plenty of Waves plugs, open and work fine. It's just this ONE song that has now reliably started hanging with CantTutThis. The mystery continues, but I have another project to finish this week, so I'm gonna have to put it off for a while. I keep making backups of everything just to be safe... This board is very helpful though. THANKS ALL for your input and advice. Yeah I'd try those things. It was the same for me, projects with the plugins would load fine, then suddenly they wouldn't... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simon.a.billington Posted February 3, 2022 Share Posted February 3, 2022 Waves plugins have been. bit fickle over the last few years. Not any fault of theirs, its because of the ever changing Mac ecosystem. The biggest issue people seem to have in my experience is the DAW vs OS vs Waves version thing. I'm assuming you've already sussed that because it sounds like you've been talking to Waves. I will say that I have had to do an uninstall/reinstall recently and it was relatively painful. It will take a bit of time if you've got a lot of plugins, but you can cut down that time considerably if you don't install the samples that come with their instruments. That's if you have any of their sample instruments. I think their entire collection comes in sat around 2GB without those samples, but I could be mistaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonscribe Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 I've been having the frustrating CantTutThis problem and I'm pretty sure in my case it's solely related to SoundToys Microshift. 1) I rarely use Microshift and it only happens in the project that includes it. 2) When I tried reinstalling Microshift, Logic couldn't validate it (in a new empty project). 3) When I had Plugin Manager rescan Microshift -- it crashed Logic at the end of the rescan process. (Repeateable.) 4) There have been many other entries on the internet signaling out SoundToys as their culprit for this problem. So, is there something I'm not understanding that still suggests this is a random problem which could be attributable to any plugin? I've written SoundToys support and not received a response in a couple of weeks. (Very disappointing -- and turns me off to SoundToys.) Anything else I can try other than just remove and avoid Microshift (and SoundToys in general)? (Or reinstalling all my plugins which would be a nightmare.) (I'm tempted to try to downgrade iLok Manager which I think I recently upgraded -- but god knows what chaos that would wreak on my many other iLok plugins!) Any advice or insight would be appreciated and thanks in advance! (Still on Logic 10.4.7 and Mojave 10.14.6). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 7, 2023 Share Posted July 7, 2023 Ok, some questions and things to try: - Are you on the latest versions of both Microshift, and the iLok Support Software? (Don't use a current Microshift, and an old version of Pace, or vice versa - Is Microshift the only Soundtoys plugin you have, or do you have other Soundtoys plugins, and do they work ok? - Do you have other plugins that use Pace iLok protection, and if so, do they work ok? What specific versions of Microshift and Pace are you running? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toonscribe Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 11 hours ago, des99 said: Ok, some questions and things to try: - Are you on the latest versions of both Microshift, and the iLok Support Software? (Don't use a current Microshift, and an old version of Pace, or vice versa - Is Microshift the only Soundtoys plugin you have, or do you have other Soundtoys plugins, and do they work ok? - Do you have other plugins that use Pace iLok protection, and if so, do they work ok? What specific versions of Microshift and Pace are you running? Hi Des99. THANK YOU, so much for your response!! I won't be able to access my studio computer to respond definitively to all your question for 24-48 hours. I do have other SoundToys plugs and I _think_ they were working okay. I will report back the answers to your questions as soon as I can -- and in the meantime, thank you again for you interest and help!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
des99 Posted July 8, 2023 Share Posted July 8, 2023 (edited) No problem - all the Soundtoys plugins use the same framework, so there's no particular reason one shouldn't work over any others. There are a few things we can try to cleanly remove, then reinstall the plugin, and hopefully we should get you back up and running unless there is a specific compatibility issue on your system. Let me know the above info and we'll go from there... (no time pressure, in your own time is perfectly fine). Edited July 8, 2023 by des99 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution toonscribe Posted July 9, 2023 Solution Share Posted July 9, 2023 Hi again, Des99. In researching to answer all your questions, I discovered that all my other SoundToys plugs (which were working fine) were v5. Microshift was v4. So, I paid to upgrade Microshift to V5 -- and that SEEMS to have solved my problem -- i.e. I was able to install and open it without the CantTutThis error. (I also upgraded to the most recent iLok License Manager, per your suggestion.) Thank you, again SO MUCH, for your time and expertise and steering me in the right direction simply by virtue of your questions -- and your offer to provide additional help. I *REALLY* appreciate it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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