Why the 3rd Party Plugins hype?

This is a great thread!

Back in the day, getting a Tascam Porta One unleashed my creative storm. I dreamed of getting a Tascam 388 but realized I couldn't afford to feed it (buy analog tape on an ongoing basis). This lead to learning how to tape-sync an Alexis HR-16 to a Fostex 260 double-speed cassette multitrack, and later adding the MMT8/Roland U220 with a Yamaha MIDI guitar controller. Those were truly happy days.

 

Having used Logic as of version 8 and other DAW along the way - looking for something only to come back to Logic - it's an objective statement that no other DAW is as complete. No complaints against the others, it's just that when I use Logic, everything I need and more is just there.

 

Yes, I have K11U, Falcon/MF3, and HALion, UAD, and PSP among others, all of which I enjoy using especially if creating in a different DAW. Since I use an Apollo interface, use of UAD plug-ins is a given. But I can and have only used Logic plug-ins without any concern.

 

There's no right or wrong answer to the thread starters question: One can only use Logic and not be limited in any way. Or, incrementally beyond that, add only something that is available in Logic buts seems to be lacking, which in my opinion is the electric piano.

 

Here's my bottom line, when I only use Logic and it's arsenal of instruments and processors, I'm more focued on music creation without the distraction or annoyance of setup details. Same is true when mixing.

 

At this stage in life, I really appreciate the genius of simplicity afforded by Logic Pro X.

Sure, there's some snake oil out there. Particularly in the $10 "impulse buy" section. And Logic has great internal effects--perhaps the best of all DAWs (it certainly was that way many years ago).

 

But use some deductive reasoning and it's clear that many 3rd party plugins both in the effects or sound source (ie synths and samplers) category absolutely DEMOLISH Logic's tools. Or at very least, augment them in crucial ways.

 

If you don't think that Overloud TH-U shows what a terrible joke Logic's Amp Designer is? Then no one can help you see.

 

Comparing EXS24's functionality and flow to Kontakt? LMAO! And we haven't even begun to take about the sound libraries available to Kontakt (which simply can never ever be programmed for EXS4)

 

I use the Logic EQ for ease of use on many small tasks, but it cannot hold a candle to FabFilter Pro-Q3 -- not in sound and definitely not in functionality.

 

A limiter? I don't have to choose a good one (like FabFilter Pro-L 2, Sonnox Limiter v3, Newfangled Elevate or DMG Limitless.. hell, I can choose the crappiest 3rd party limiter on the market and it will probably shame Logic's built in limiter.

 

I can carry this list on forever. Do you think Logic's Drummer and Drum Designer deserve to be compared to Superior Drummer 3? Please, introduce me to your dealer, cause that is powerful stuff you're smoking..

 

Sorry, but it's just a silly topic.

 

At the end of the day, it's the music that matters, I'm sure w all agree. But music used to be almost exclusively recorded in studios with high end gear and good instruments. Now a huge portion of it isn't, and that hurt the sound a lot (especially about 10 years ago was a very bad point). The quality of the tools now ITB is improving as well as the knowledge available to novices who don't come from a studio background and it's helping the general standard of sound to improve again from where it was during that slump a decade or a decade and half ago.

And for thought.. Are we allowed to count Alchemy as Logic's internal stuff? Because I bought it as a 3rd party plugin (gasp...) back when it was not part of Logic. So it seems confusing that we can champion it as part of Logic's offerings, but then say 3rd party stuff is pointless when it was sounding just the same as a 3rd party plugin at one time (when all Logic's internal synths were very boring by comparison).

alchemy (and sylenth1, and zebra2) were my first 3rd-party plugins. i always found alchemy (then) to be a little... dull. now (in logic's version) i use it often, and love it (and still insist i also need sylenth1 and zebra... etc). that's the great thing; we can use internal plugins, or 3rd-party ones... and still benefit from the great tools in logic. am happy with what i have (at least, sigh, for the next 15 minutes)...

Hi all,

( apology in advance, done on my iPhone)

 

Trolling subject in some respect. I too began on a Tascam, 244 in my case. Loved it, so simple, made passable recordings within its limited bounce downs.

 

Over the years I had access to a reel to reel once in someone’s proper studio along with an Atari. When computers became more accessible to me I tried early versions of twelve tones cakewalk and early cubase.

 

My favourite upgrade of all time was my Roland VS1880. With 2 vfx cards an external mixer and dat machine it was all I needed. Savage Garden made a successful album on a Roland.

 

Along the way I have found as I added more gear and moved into computer based recording my ability to create more expressive musical pieces has grown.

 

Do I have any platinum albums, no, have I worked with people who have, yes. The sound we get and what we use to get it, from instrument to mic, preamp, amp etc is sometimes by necessity, if we’re lucky, by choice.

 

As others have stated eloquently, logic is great, but it does have short comings. Thankfully we can buy our way around those, IF WE CHOOSE TO!.

 

Once last thing, while a Mac may still offer a stable platform for recording compared to most pcs amateur recording people use, it is way overpriced for most people too . Price of admission to Logic Pro X.

Fwiw, theses days, pretty much all sequencers come with a pretty decent package of plugins. With most of them you might be able to create release-worthy material only using stock plugins. With Cubase, at least all things drum/percussion sampling related are even better than what we get with Logic. So it's not exactly that Logic is the only one coming with impressive content.

Btw, talking about Cubase, JFYI: Steinberg just has a 50% 30th Cubase anniversary promotion running. You can get everything for 50% off and even apply a crossgrade discount (€170 for Cubase 10, full version - yes, that's cheaper than Logic). I'm defenitely taking advance of that. And boy, do parts of Cubase 10s list of features look like a 1:1 copy of my longstanding Logic requests - instead of messing up "capture last take as recording" (which is what Apple did) they rather added this for audio and it's even working in stop-mode.

Likely a nice start to plan some stuff for my post-Apple days (which, eventually, will come one day).

My DAW requirements are very basic so there are only a few additions I'd like to see Logic Pro X add to the plugin arsenal. They are: a dynamic EQ, the capacity in Space Designer to load two impulse responses simultaneously (L and R for true stereo as can be done easily in other IR reverbs like LiquidSonics Reverberate 2) and a more comprehensive loudness meter.

That said, Logic Pro X stock plugins are usually all I need for mixing. I think it's a great DAW!

Space designer has truestereo support but the IR settings needs to have it, maybe a 4channel WAV could be loaded as well.

 

Fwiw, theses days, pretty much all sequencers come with a pretty decent package of plugins. With most of them you might be able to create release-worthy material only using stock plugins. With Cubase, at least all things drum/percussion sampling related are even better than what we get with Logic. So it's not exactly that Logic is the only one coming with impressive content.

Btw, talking about Cubase, JFYI: Steinberg just has a 50% 30th Cubase anniversary promotion running. You can get everything for 50% off and even apply a crossgrade discount (€170 for Cubase 10, full version - yes, that's cheaper than Logic). I'm defenitely taking advance of that. And boy, do parts of Cubase 10s list of features look like a 1:1 copy of my longstanding Logic requests - instead of messing up "capture last take as recording" (which is what Apple did) they rather added this for audio and it's even working in stop-mode.

Likely a nice start to plan some stuff for my post-Apple days (which, eventually, will come one day).

Yeah the drop is nice. I'm getting the upgrade from 7.5 for 99€

Space designer has truestereo support but the IR settings needs to have it, maybe a 4channel WAV could be loaded as well.

 

Yes, I'm aware that it's doable but the process is anything but easy and intuitive. Here's a previous thread on the subject that illustrates how complicated the setup is.

viewtopic.php?t=127423

Sure, there's some snake oil out there. Particularly in the $10 "impulse buy" section. And Logic has great internal effects--perhaps the best of all DAWs (it certainly was that way many years ago).

 

But use some deductive reasoning and it's clear that many 3rd party plugins both in the effects or sound source (ie synths and samplers) category absolutely DEMOLISH Logic's tools. Or at very least, augment them in crucial ways.

 

If you don't think that Overloud TH-U shows what a terrible joke Logic's Amp Designer is? Then no one can help you see.

 

A limiter? I don't have to choose a good one (like FabFilter Pro-L 2, Sonnox Limiter v3, Newfangled Elevate or DMG Limitless.. hell, I can choose the crappiest 3rd party limiter on the market and it will probably shame Logic's built in limiter.

 

I can carry this list on forever. Do you think Logic's Drummer and Drum Designer deserve to be compared to Superior Drummer 3? Please, introduce me to your dealer, cause that is powerful stuff you're smoking...

 

1. Overloud TH-U is also a "terrible joke". But the real joke? None of the amp sims sound like a real guitar amp. By the time you spend all the money comparing amp sims, you could have purchased a real guitar amp lol. Better of using Logic's if you have to use a sim.

2. Adaptive Limiter can compete with most high end 3rd party limiters. This is from experience.

3. Yes Drum Kit Designer in Logic pro X sounds as good in the mix as Superior Drummer 3. I know, $400 for drum software should absolutely demolish logics little drum kit in the sound department, but it doesn't. The retro rock kit holds up well against any of my drum software including SD3 and AD2 which I own.

 

Our ego can sometimes fool us and the marketing companies do a good job stroking our ego with the wording of the products so they pull you in. Who wouldn't buy a plugin claiming to give you the classic sound of Pink Floyd, The Beatles or Rolling Stones?

 

Again, I'm not saying it's bad to own 3rd party software as I do myself, but my thing is how much is enough? These are the things you come up with as thought experiments when you spend all day every day recording and making records lol.

 

Hope this thread inspires some kid to stop buying so many plugins and make a hit record then they will basically give you the gear haha

i forgot my iloks the other day and started a project with stock logic plugs they are great and could take you all the way if you wanted to do it that way. i do feel like they might lack some precision in certain instances (fab filter all day for multi band comp or detailed eqs, mid side eqs). they also lack some vibe when you want extreme character (like say soundtoys plugs). so you could do it all with logic but might be able to do it better if you open up your tool box.

Sure, there's some snake oil out there. Particularly in the $10 "impulse buy" section. And Logic has great internal effects--perhaps the best of all DAWs (it certainly was that way many years ago).

 

But use some deductive reasoning and it's clear that many 3rd party plugins both in the effects or sound source (ie synths and samplers) category absolutely DEMOLISH Logic's tools. Or at very least, augment them in crucial ways.

 

If you don't think that Overloud TH-U shows what a terrible joke Logic's Amp Designer is? Then no one can help you see.

 

A limiter? I don't have to choose a good one (like FabFilter Pro-L 2, Sonnox Limiter v3, Newfangled Elevate or DMG Limitless.. hell, I can choose the crappiest 3rd party limiter on the market and it will probably shame Logic's built in limiter.

 

I can carry this list on forever. Do you think Logic's Drummer and Drum Designer deserve to be compared to Superior Drummer 3? Please, introduce me to your dealer, cause that is powerful stuff you're smoking...

 

1. Overloud TH-U is also a "terrible joke". But the real joke? None of the amp sims sound like a real guitar amp. By the time you spend all the money comparing amp sims, you could have purchased a real guitar amp lol. Better of using Logic's if you have to use a sim.

2. Adaptive Limiter can compete with most high end 3rd party limiters. This is from experience.

3. Yes Drum Kit Designer in Logic pro X sounds as good in the mix as Superior Drummer 3. I know, $400 for drum software should absolutely demolish logics little drum kit in the sound department, but it doesn't. The retro rock kit holds up well against any of my drum software including SD3 and AD2 which I own.

 

Our ego can sometimes fool us and the marketing companies do a good job stroking our ego with the wording of the products so they pull you in. Who wouldn't buy a plugin claiming to give you the classic sound of Pink Floyd, The Beatles or Rolling Stones?

 

Again, I'm not saying it's bad to own 3rd party software as I do myself, but my thing is how much is enough? These are the things you come up with as thought experiments when you spend all day every day recording and making records lol.

 

Hope this thread inspires some kid to stop buying so many plugins and make a hit record then they will basically give you the gear haha

 

not sure what you're getting at, but... i demo things, and buy only what really moves me. nothing more (and nothing less). and i pray that nothing i do sounds like 'pink floyd, the beatles, or the rolling stones'..!

1. Overloud TH-U is also a "terrible joke". But the real joke? None of the amp sims sound like a real guitar amp. By the time you spend all the money comparing amp sims, you could have purchased a real guitar amp lol. Better of using Logic's if you have to use a sim.

2. Adaptive Limiter can compete with most high end 3rd party limiters. This is from experience.

3. Yes Drum Kit Designer in Logic pro X sounds as good in the mix as Superior Drummer 3. I know, $400 for drum software should absolutely demolish logics little drum kit in the sound department, but it doesn't. The retro rock kit holds up well against any of my drum software including SD3 and AD2 which I own.

 

Our ego can sometimes fool us and the marketing companies do a good job stroking our ego with the wording of the products so they pull you in. Who wouldn't buy a plugin claiming to give you the classic sound of Pink Floyd, The Beatles or Rolling Stones?

 

Again, I'm not saying it's bad to own 3rd party software as I do myself, but my thing is how much is enough? These are the things you come up with as thought experiments when you spend all day every day recording and making records lol.

 

Love it!

My DAW requirements are very basic so there are only a few additions I'd like to see Logic Pro X add to the plugin arsenal. They are: a dynamic EQ, the capacity in Space Designer to load two impulse responses simultaneously (L and R for true stereo as can be done easily in other IR reverbs like LiquidSonics Reverberate 2) and a more comprehensive loudness meter.

That said, Logic Pro X stock plugins are usually all I need for mixing. I think it's a great DAW!

 

Tokyo Dawn Labs has a free dynamic EQ called Nova.

My DAW requirements are very basic so there are only a few additions I'd like to see Logic Pro X add to the plugin arsenal. They are: a dynamic EQ, the capacity in Space Designer to load two impulse responses simultaneously (L and R for true stereo as can be done easily in other IR reverbs like LiquidSonics Reverberate 2) and a more comprehensive loudness meter.

That said, Logic Pro X stock plugins are usually all I need for mixing. I think it's a great DAW!

 

Tokyo Dawn Labs has a free dynamic EQ called Nova.

 

Yes, I have the Nova GE and use it a lot. That's why I think it would behoove (love using words like that) the Logic Pro developers to include one in the stock plugins. In the meantime I'll continue to benefit from all the amazing Tokyo Dawn plugins in my toolbox.

As far as amp sims go, not all of us have the luxury of cranking a real amp without the neighbours showing up with torches and pitchforks. Used in a mix of other instruments, I would defy anyone, especially a non-musician, to determine beyond the level of chance, whether the sound is a sim or the real thing. That goes especially for something like Scuffham Amps or the expensive hardware modelers.

With Logic's native sampled instruments, I think you might get away with a piano or strings in a pop song mix, but if they're used as in a solo context, the shortcoming is fairly obvious. All I know is, my 3rd party plugin buying is pretty much covered, now. My wife is pleased anout that.

 

Tokyo Dawn Labs has a free dynamic EQ called Nova.

 

Yes, I have the Nova GE and use it a lot. That's why I think it would behoove (love using words like that) the Logic Pro developers to include one in the stock plugins. In the meantime I'll continue to benefit from all the amazing Tokyo Dawn plugins in my toolbox.

 

 

tokyo dawn's stuff is great, i use their 'limiter 6 GE" a lot...

As far as amp sims go, not all of us have the luxury of cranking a real amp without the neighbours showing up with torches and pitchforks. Used in a mix of other instruments, I would defy anyone, especially a non-musician, to determine beyond the level of chance, whether the sound is a sim or the real thing. That goes especially for something like Scuffham Amps or the expensive hardware modelers.

With Logic's native sampled instruments, I think you might get away with a piano or strings in a pop song mix, but if they're used as in a solo context, the shortcoming is fairly obvious. All I know is, my 3rd party plugin buying is pretty much covered, now. My wife is pleased anout that.

 

I can use my tube head with this: and no neighbors knocking at my door:

 

https://axetrak.com/product/axetrak-pro/

OT, but oh well...

 

As far as amp sims go, not all of us have the luxury of cranking a real amp without the neighbours showing up with torches and pitchforks. Used in a mix of other instruments, I would defy anyone, especially a non-musician, to determine beyond the level of chance, whether the sound is a sim or the real thing. That goes especially for something like Scuffham Amps or the expensive hardware modelers.

 

Fwiw, I'm a guitarist and I'm making my living from being one (no stories of fame or whatever, but still...). I worked in a whole plethora of musical contexts and during the last decade (at least roughly) there's been a huge demand for DI sounds, as in "no loud amps anywhere around". Heck, make that "no amps at all around". Try getting a musical/theatre job without using a modeler of some sorts and you're out of luck already (at least over here).

As a result of that, amp sims have gotten a whole lot more attention. And when you look at the latest top tier hardware modelers (think Kemper and Axe FX in the first place but also Line6 Helix, Atomic Amplifire and Boss GT-1000), it shows off, especially now that all of them can use IRs for speaker simulation duties (which is a game changer on its own already, no less).

Do these sound like real amps when you stand in front of them? No.

Do they sound like a properly mic'ed up amp? Yes.

The difference between the two is staggering and everybody familiar with playing mic'ed up amps sitting in iso booths through studio monitors knows that it's pretty much exactly the same issue. Folks using IEM setups live surely know about these things as well.

Now. this also adds another "layer" of sound sculpting to the guitarists toolbox. One that many (very likely even most) aren't familiar with. All of a sudden you're facing a plethora of mics and positioning options via IRs - and very often these are tailored to give you the best sound in a mix, rather than working too well for direct/live playing.

But all that doesn't mean that amp sims aren't "there" yet. When you play a HQ amp sim through a neutral power amp and a standard guitar cab, I'm sure pretty much nobody would be able to tell the difference instantly, if at all.

And conversely, if you mike up your beloved amp and cab and then play it through a decent loadbox and an IR of exactly the same cab/mic setup, I'd take almost any bet that most people wouldn't notice the difference.

Fwiw, I have personally seen folks failing at what was pretty much close to an ABX blind test.

 

Now, combined with lowest latency interfaces and fast computers, we can quite obviously have all that goodness in our DAWs (Helix Native being the first modeler to exist in both the hardware and software realm). But obviously, the issues (as in listening through studio monitors, headphones, etc. vs. that "amp in the room" feel) will be exactly the same. But that doesn't mean amp sims aren't there yet.

 

Fwiw, for around 2 years I am now playing modelers exclusively. Well, ok, I also played them before, but only in case the situation demanded it (musicals, "no loud amps" situations, etc.). But I have by now started selling all my amps and cabs (I even started with my modified Boogie MKIV and a custom cab tailored just for that amp - which was close to the ideal combination of all times for me). And unless an amp is provided as a "must use" thing on some gig, I will never ever in my life play through a real amp again.

Btw, for now I'm using an Atomic Ampli-Firebox for all dirt stuff and an AMT Pangaea for clean sounds. Plus a loopswitcher based pedal board featuring the usual suspects. I think around next month I'll be doing the final jump to a Line6 Helix (which should be ideal for me), so the last analog stuff on my pedalboard will also be sent into retirement (ok, I'll keep those at home).

Fwiw #2: Ever since I switched, I'm getting nothing but compliments regarding my live sounds. Easy to handle for the FOH dudes, easy to deal with in an IEM environment, easy on the ears of myself and the bandmates, flexible too, just what the doctor ordered. Absolutely great times.

 

Yes, I have the Nova GE and use it a lot. That's why I think it would behoove (love using words like that) the Logic Pro developers to include one in the stock plugins. In the meantime I'll continue to benefit from all the amazing Tokyo Dawn plugins in my toolbox.

 

 

tokyo dawn's stuff is great, i use their 'limiter 6 GE" a lot...

 

The Slick EQ M and Limiter 6 GE have permanent homes on all my master tracks. Which brings me back to the OP. Logic Pro stock plugins would no doubt get the jobs done that I use TDLs and Klanghelms to achieve but frankly I have fun employing the 3rd party offerings and really like the different "flavours" they provide. For example, the Klanghelm MJUC MK3>Guitar>Solo Presence preset sounds amazing on acoustic guitar.

OT, but oh well...

 

As far as amp sims go, not all of us have the luxury of cranking a real amp without the neighbours showing up with torches and pitchforks. Used in a mix of other instruments, I would defy anyone, especially a non-musician, to determine beyond the level of chance, whether the sound is a sim or the real thing. That goes especially for something like Scuffham Amps or the expensive hardware modelers.

 

Fwiw, I'm a guitarist and I'm making my living from being one (no stories of fame or whatever, but still...). I worked in a whole plethora of musical contexts and during the last decade (at least roughly) there's been a huge demand for DI sounds, as in "no loud amps anywhere around". Heck, make that "no amps at all around". Try getting a musical/theatre job without using a modeler of some sorts and you're out of luck already (at least over here).

As a result of that, amp sims have gotten a whole lot more attention. And when you look at the latest top tier hardware modelers (think Kemper and Axe FX in the first place but also Line6 Helix, Atomic Amplifire and Boss GT-1000), it shows off, especially now that all of them can use IRs for speaker simulation duties (which is a game changer on its own already, no less).

Do these sound like real amps when you stand in front of them? No.

Do they sound like a properly mic'ed up amp? Yes.

The difference between the two is staggering and everybody familiar with playing mic'ed up amps sitting in iso booths through studio monitors knows that it's pretty much exactly the same issue. Folks using IEM setups live surely know about these things as well.

Now. this also adds another "layer" of sound sculpting to the guitarists toolbox. One that many (very likely even most) aren't familiar with. All of a sudden you're facing a plethora of mics and positioning options via IRs - and very often these are tailored to give you the best sound in a mix, rather than working too well for direct/live playing.

But all that doesn't mean that amp sims aren't "there" yet. When you play a HQ amp sim through a neutral power amp and a standard guitar cab, I'm sure pretty much nobody would be able to tell the difference instantly, if at all.

And conversely, if you mike up your beloved amp and cab and then play it through a decent loadbox and an IR of exactly the same cab/mic setup, I'd take almost any bet that most people wouldn't notice the difference.

Fwiw, I have personally seen folks failing at what was pretty much close to an ABX blind test.

 

Now, combined with lowest latency interfaces and fast computers, we can quite obviously have all that goodness in our DAWs (Helix Native being the first modeler to exist in both the hardware and software realm). But obviously, the issues (as in listening through studio monitors, headphones, etc. vs. that "amp in the room" feel) will be exactly the same. But that doesn't mean amp sims aren't there yet.

 

Fwiw, for around 2 years I am now playing modelers exclusively. Well, ok, I also played them before, but only in case the situation demanded it (musicals, "no loud amps" situations, etc.). But I have by now started selling all my amps and cabs (I even started with my modified Boogie MKIV and a custom cab tailored just for that amp - which was close to the ideal combination of all times for me). And unless an amp is provided as a "must use" thing on some gig, I will never ever in my life play through a real amp again.

Btw, for now I'm using an Atomic Ampli-Firebox for all dirt stuff and an AMT Pangaea for clean sounds. Plus a loopswitcher based pedal board featuring the usual suspects. I think around next month I'll be doing the final jump to a Line6 Helix (which should be ideal for me), so the last analog stuff on my pedalboard will also be sent into retirement (ok, I'll keep those at home).

Fwiw #2: Ever since I switched, I'm getting nothing but compliments regarding my live sounds. Easy to handle for the FOH dudes, easy to deal with in an IEM environment, easy on the ears of myself and the bandmates, flexible too, just what the doctor ordered. Absolutely great times.

 

Pete Thorn talks a lot about using either modellers or an emulated out for a lot of his gigs. He has even used both at times, a DI out to the sound man and a cab on stage.

I have gotten great tone out of my Vox Tonelab for 15 years that people came to me on stage and complimented the tone on a regular basis and it records well too. Amp sims are used all over the place on albums. Granted, I enjoy more playing through tubes into celestions, but that's just me

Superior Drummer 3 has a massive drum library (over 200gb), but Logics Drum Kit Designer is just as good in the sound department.

 

It really isn't Logic's 'Drummer' is a very convenient way to lay down a drum track, with some really cool features for providing variety etc. However, it doesn't come close to 3rd party drum sample libraries on the scale of SD3, BFD3, or even EZdrumme, with regard to detailed dynamics, round-robin and articulation sampling. These make a huge difference when it comes down to how real a kit will sound.

 

As for the rest of your post: I kinda agree. There is definitely a lot of hype. However, aside from the availability of plugins for which Logic has no real equal, there is a good argument for using 3rd party plugins from a workflow point of view. I personally really like Logic's eq's, compressors, gate etc. However, I much prefer the workflow of channel-strips for those basic first broad moves. I also have some creative effects that I feel are outside the scope of the current Logic stock.

 

One last argument in defence of using 3rd party plugs applies to those of us who use more than one daw. In this case, it is probably a much better idea to learn a set of plugs that will work across all platforms. This is another treason why I keep a small collection of 3rd-party plugs around.

It really isn't Logic's 'Drummer' is a very convenient way to lay down a drum track, with some really cool features for providing variety etc. However, it doesn't come close to 3rd party drum sample libraries on the scale of SD3, BFD3, or even EZdrumme, with regard to detailed dynamics, round-robin and articulation sampling. These make a huge difference when it comes down to how real a kit will sound.

 

It's exactly the same for pretty much all plugins coming with Logic:

Bread'n'Butter? Yes, pretty much everything covered rather well.

Anything beyond? No, not really.

Obviously with the odd exception such as Alchemy.

 

I don't have any problem with that, because, well, I can buy 3rd party stuff exactly tailored for my needs. Sure, things are getting more expensive then, but let's be honest, all that stuff is so cheap these days, really doesn't matter much in case you're taking things a little serious.

As said, I would much prefer if the Logic team concentrated on the core sequencing functionalities - Logic is really falling quite short in that aspect. Plus, bugs are hardly fixed anymore, features are broken and/or removed and not re-introduced. The greatest plugin suite in the world is no replacement for Logics excellent zoom functions which they completely f***ed up in LPX (it's still driving me mad almost every single minute).

 

And then, if they intend to keep delivering "content" - why not really make us "wow" for once? Give me a kind of "deeply embedded sampling suite". Allowing me to drag and drop samples from anywhere to anywhere else. Allowing me to slice, dice, re-order, map and mangle to my hearts content. Throw in a mix of synthesis (a la Alchemy) and sampling. In addition, what about a modular "sub-enviroment" for audio? Why can't I use plugins parallely (track stacks are not even remotely the same)? Why isn't is possible to switch between audio routings via MIDI CCs or other modifiers (such as LFOs) - and no, what the environment has on offer isn't even close.

These are the things making sense to be tied to a sequencer. Adding yet some more plugins and content is just an excuse for not taking care of the core technology.

Sometimes sour cream is just fine but some recipes are better with Crème Fraîche.

Sometimes sour cream is just fine but some recipes are better with Crème Fraîche.

 

Of course you need a great recipe sometimes.

I just find it funny what people expect from a professional software product that’s only 199.

And what most people don’t consider. Logic had 4 huge decimal number updates.

You didn’t have to pay for the updates either.

No other DAW does it. And they can’t because they don’t sell the hardware Apple sells.

It all comes down to money in the big picture.

Nobody wants a money losing business.

But in the age of internet many believe things should be free because you can find them online.

I just find it funny what people expect from a professional software product that’s only 199.

 

The first thing I really don't expect is my sequencer of choice being sold for peanuts. And hence being partially treated like peanuts.

I'd be a lot happier if they ditched all content, fixed the zoom, beatmapping, part handling, "capture last take..." and whatever issues and sell Logic for 400 (or even more). And yes, I would happily pay for updates in case things would be adressed the way they should be adressed.

Or they could just include plugins that are the equivalent of sour cream, sell it for peanuts and allow users that need special ingredients like Crème fraîche, to upgrade with third party plugins.

 

Personally, I’d gladly pay 400$ for logic as is, if that’s what it cost. Not gonna complain about getting it cheap enough to throw $200 worth of their party plugins of my choosing to customize it and still be in the standard price range for a full feature daw.

 

(By the way, that last quote wasn’t me, it was a quote of someone quoting me)

if something is worth it, is something i want and/or need... i'll pay what it costs. logic at $200 is a gift, so i have no issue spending hundreds more on specific synths, or fx. i just want to make the best music i can, and, importantly, have the best time doing that. what else really matters?

Man!

For a 3rd party plugins bashing topic, that entire industry owes you all a very big thank you for the free and generous advertisement!