Mattinay

Thanks Dewdman. I found with one instance, no issue. Many instances, trouble. No loopbacks, just unstable. Anyway, it is what it is. I used the free DDMF "connect" for ages before they pulled it, was fantastic if not always consistent / honest about its latency and overheads every time. DDMF metaplugin is good. I will give Kushview a looksee. My experiences with Bidule have not been pleasant.

Yup - patchwork is 99 euro, is awesome, but with hosting VSTs in logic and routing MIDI to get around Logic's shortcomings / lack of implementation so far in this area, I found logic to become more unstable (a major increase in likelihood Logic would crash). Not the fault of patchwork from what I could tell - I found this to be rock solid. As soon as MIDI is involved with Logic outside of its comfort zone though, make sure you save save save save save, or lose lose lose lose lose. My experience anyway. More robust was to rewire reaper in slave mode to logic as host and run the vsts in reaper, but other instability and limitations of one "port" 16 channels in reaper. Either way, too high a level of flakey for me, too much wasted time, moved on for those sort of projects into other DAWs, Much more efficient is what I personally found in my way of working and wants/ needs etc.

From my experience, you have to change DAW. There may be a way to build an environment I guess, but can't help you on that one. No idea how you would access the MIDI output of a component plugin in the environment though. Not a clue because it's the plugin that does not route MIDI from what I can remember - before I gave up and moved everything over to other DAWs. MIDI out is in the spec, but not implemented in Logic nor in most plugins. VST works fine so see the suggestion above about using BlueCat's Patchwork and Patchwork Synth plugins to host VST plugins in Logic.

update - it IS possible to record enable two sub-stack tracks at once, as long as there is only ONE external instrument in use anywhere in the session, which negates any chance of having more than one MIDI input stream at once for different instrument tracks - silly, but I join a loooong list of people who have said this before me over many years. Using multiple IAC busses does not help either.

OK - cool - quick experiment - - [1] source track with chord trig AND arp sending to two different instrument tracks in a sum stack = produces both PLAYING same arp settings. [2] source track with chord trig sending to to different instrument tracks in a sum stack EACH with it's own copy of an arp creates alternate arps PLAYING based on each individual's settings. Note the output of the chord trigger can be captured by record on the SUM track - but the MIDI output of THAT is not recordable, even if the two sub-stack tracks are record enabled and recorded (no input is seen to the track, even though the instrument itself sees the MIDI input). This seems to be a bug, no? Also, sub-stack racks cannot be record enabled at the same time - only one at a time. Rec enable 1 and it enables, click on a second and it disables the first. click on the second again and only then it enables the second. Doesn't solve the ability to record, capture trigger, triggered chord and/or resultant arps, but close. Nice idea, thanks, will report back with more details once I get it working if anyone else is interested in this.

Hmmmm - no. How would one set that up for this context? I use track stacks for Audio all the time, never MIDI before. I will do some experimenting, but more insights would be wonderful - thank you.

Additionally, the environment does not have software instruments, so reassigning tracks to a MIDI track created in the environment changes the track type to MIDI (as expected) which means one loses the ability to use MIDI FX plugins. Adding objects in the environment for arpegiator and chord trigger is of no help because they do not access all the settings I have created in the MIDI FX plugins. I love Logic, but this is driving me nuts, I feel it should be so easy but the solution eludes me. It is simple in other DAWs, but I want to specifically use these particular plugins and Logic for the piece I am working on. Thanks.

Hi, I am familiar with using the external instrument to capture the output of a MIDI plugin. What i cannot get working however is a dual (actually triple) record path. I am using chord trigger, into an arpeggiator, MIDI out using external instrument sending via IAC bus to input of another track with an instrument on it. I want two sounds, so set up two instrument tracks with different instruments on them but only one at a time is able to be record enabled or played. I now want to record the trigger note, and the output of the chord trigger, AND the output of the arpeggiator so I can refine a recorded performance by moving either a trigger note, or an arpeggiator setting, or a selected notes from the arpeggiator output. I have set up the following but it does not work, as in the MIDI does not flow through and I can no longer hear or record the combination result of chord being arpeggiated in order to make performance decisions. (sounds complicated, but it's not conceptually, very very simple - but cannot get logic to work with the basic conceptual logic) Track 1 - chord trigger - external instrument IAC bus Ch 1 Track 2 - arpeggiator - external instrument IAC bus Ch 2 Track 3 - sound module 1 Only one track at a time can be put into record, and no signal flows regardless of record status. It has been many years since I used the environment (I have been using logic since the 1980s notator / creator). Is this possible outside of prgramming up patches in the environment - or is it even possible at all in Logic? Thanks for any insights.

Try this - go to System Prefs - General - and then set Recent items to any number other than none. Logic now takes on the system settings which it didn't before (under 10.9.5 anyway - I have been forced against my will to upgrade to 10.11 because of Logic update ).

THANK YOU. !! That is a very precise, concise and helpful answer. That is the most definitive answer I have seen, thank you. I have been a Logic user and promoter since the days of notator and creator (1980s). As one of the originators of MIDI music making (at least Lengeling and Adam were), it is completely illogical that this application cannot deal with MIDI in such a basic fashion. MIDI generating plugins can not output MIDI internally in a MIDI-centric application and the MIDI centric host can't deal with it internally? Awesome. Oh well. Feels like having the only car on the planet that will only turn left - the only DAW on the planet (with MIDI capabilities) that can't do internal MIDI routing.

angelonyc, the only thing I can recommend is that you need to politely suggest that Musiclab look at that link and see what they make of it (the info in that link is not for us mere mortals, it is for developers). According to Apple Spec on that link, AU plugins have allowed MIDI out from plugins since 10.5. I would be very interested to see what they come back with as an answer.

This is all good info thanks Eric and Red Baron. Interesting.

Thanks Eric. It turns out the reason is really obvious if you know that Apple has designed AU to not do MIDI (or words to that effect). I am told today that unless Apple change the spec of AU, Logic users will not be able to record or pass the MIDI output of any plugin to another plugin or track. Luckily all other plugin formats do not suffer this so this can be made to work in any other DAW but Logic for the moment. I will update the first post with some keywords to help others to find this info once it gets buried. Thanks for your help.

Thank you Eric, much appreciated. Good find on that other post as well thank you. As I feared, Logic is not able to see MIDI output from a plugin. (quoted from the other thread: (Logic doesn't support MIDI output from plug-ins, unless the plug-ins use their own virtual MIDI port which appears in Logic's physical input object). In the hope this might help anyone else, this is not just relevant to reaktor, many of the plugins that modify or generate MIDI data (e.g. with inbuilt arpeggiators, randomisers, generators, groove boxes etc) only create their own "personal" MIDI out buss when used in standalone mode, if at all. Not the answer I was hoping for, but lovely to have a resolution so quickly. Appreciated. Looks like I will have to move to another DAW for these projects.

Connect the output of my . . . . . . ???? That bit would really help, thank you. (i.e. it can't be the output of the virtual instrument channel because that is audio only, and the output of VI is still enabled to send to all MIDI outputs but Logic seems to disable that signal flow as nothing returns down any virtual MIDI buss except if the instrument is external to Logic).