core overloads

if your getting core overloads are you meant to increase or decrease the buffer size? and what do both these eventualalities lead to?

 

ta

 

nick

however Logic 8 seems to be more prone to audio overload than 7 was for some odd reason.

 

in my frustration i've tested this repeatedly on my macbook pro and mac pro.

 

creating a simple 3 track song in L7...cycling the same sections, arming the same vocal track. tweaking the exact same multipressor thresholds in both L7 and L8.

 

L8 will ALWAYS eventually overload where L7 wouldn't ever.

RAM and hard drive isn't an issue...because my mac pro has 4 gigs. my macbook pro only has 2. L7 is far more solid in it's consistency.

 

I mean, i shouldn't be afraid to mess with the threshold on 2 bands of compression without it overloading. 7 never really has done that to me at all. 8 does to it me all the time.

 

 

i hope to god they fix it. i find myself going back to 7 more only because i know it won't overload on me...especially with how i write....i like to cycle a section of my songs..and then just sing over. the comp in 8 is awesome but it's just not conducive to creativity if it's gonna stop cuz it overloaded. sheesh!

 

i should write a song about it. core audio overload....you break my heart.....oh yes you do....HAHA

Hello

 

I have a G5 2x 2.5 and I have a lot of core audio overload at the beginning of as ession

 

I discovered something :

 

I open the activity monitor and it seems to help the process

Why ? I really don't know but as soon as I'm bored with overload I open The activity M and Shazam it appears less and less

 

Mystery !!!

 

try it.. maybe

 

regards

Well done, arkanax, you managed to COMPLETELY ignore the question asked and just go for a rant instead!!!

I, unlike you, find Logic 8 much more stable, with fewer core audio overloads. But that's irrelevant.

 

Nick, if you're getting core audio overloads, it really depends what you have in the project as to what will help the situation. First, I'd try upping the buffer (256 samples +) and see if that helps. You may find it makes no difference at all...

 

If you set a higher buffer size then any instrument you play in will have a latency while you record it (using software monitoring). It won't affect anything else really.

 

As I said before, it *really* depends on the spec of your Mac as to what will help.

 

Please could you post your specs, including CPU, RAM and HDD details - and any audio interface and external HDD info, where applicable.

Hi. I see this question more and more.I have found there to be no real reply that answers it. If it were LP7 yes. But it seems more a theory as to how LP8 will actually work in a reliable way. Rob nailed it about what can happen and what to definately experiment with. But there are many frustrations being had and voiced by people about the overload thing. One day I can run 128 buffer the next 1024 or else. Both with the same project..Seems LP8 is prone to mood swings at present. So I think the actual reply is needed from Apple via a software update. Then many who are attempting all the advice given and stil having problems can actually benefit from it. At present ,My opinion is any advice given in this regard for LP8 is just theoretical. Not defacto...Let's hope Apple gets an update up soon...Just a thought...JON

Historical wisdom, particularly from those who aren't actually plagued by this defect, is:

- play around with the buffers, and other audio settings, but generally set everything to "weaker" levels (band-aid the issue)

- get a faster machine

- get more ram

- stop using logic like that

- etc.

 

I tried all those. Didn't help, because...

It's a bug.

 

So I think the actual reply is needed from Apple via a software update. Then many who are attempting all the advice given and still having problems can actually benefit from it.

 

Yes. That's it, exactly.

 

Let's hope Apple gets an update up soon...

 

I actually now find that unlikely, and unfortunate.

 

This is a very old defect. It's been discussed at length all over the web for years and years now.

 

Apple has reached a conclusion that they MAY back away from, but my experience in software development is that it's rare that an "issue" that's been "solved" gets attention. It's possible, but then again, this is like 3 years old already.

 

Here's their take on it as of a year or two ago (more?):

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=304970

 

You'll find that doc contains pretty much all the advice everybody echoes.

 

So yes, buffers might help you, but might not.

More ram might, but might not.

A faster machine won't do much of anything if you're already in dual-quad-octo-core land.

 

The only band-aids I can find that actually help:

- take plugins of all kinds out of the picture entirely: bounce EVERYTHING, even if you've only got 3 tracks. I know... it's like jumping back in time 3 or 4 years. Goodness, I haven't had to bounce in any DAW but Logic in SO long. But, as a band aid, it works better than the other suggestions.

- NEVER reboot your machine (for me, the issue is consistent primarily after machine reboots, and gets significantly better after I've walked through 3 or 4 projects 3 or 4 times). Too bad I have a laptop.

 

I know, it's lame. I agree.

But, Logic for me can't play anything that uses any plugins in real time.

 

And honestly, everybody, go easy on people venting about this if you don't have the issue.

 

No offense, but it's strange to watch people get on to somebody that has the problem, and then go on to offer advice about an issue they don't have.

 

Personally, I find this bug particularly embarrassing, and inexcusable. I don't recommend Logic because of it, and while I currently use it, I'm not thinking that will last if this showstopper bug isn't fixed.

At their very root, DAWs have to play.

 

I've spent months methodically testing ONLY this issue. So much so that I basically haven't done anything else with Logic Pro but that. That's pretty bad, and the first time I've done that since MIDI timing with Cubase SL 2.

 

Totally respectfully,

- zevo

I had one guy say this wouldn't work on the Apple forum, but I have no idea if that is true. If Apple designed Logic 8 to work more nicely with other programs, it just might. Anyone want to run some benchmarks?

 

---

 

I saw an interesting thread on the Final Cut Pro forum - where the users were concerned that rendering did not fully use all of their cores.

 

This might be of use to heavy Logic users?

 

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=819587&tstart=0

 

Is your Processor Performance set to "Highest" in your Energy Saver preferences?

To increase the priority of a process in Mac OS X, open the Activity Monitor in the /Applications/Utilities/ folder and get the process's pid. From here, open the Terminal, which is also in the Utilities folder, and enter the following:

 

sudo renice -20 pid

 

where pid is the number you found earlier. Press Enter and type in your password; nothing will appear in the window while it is being typed. The process in question will now run as fast as the computer can make it go. The effect of this command ends when the program quits.

----

-20 refers to the "nice" level of the process. UNIX operating systems have what is called a scheduler, a part of the kernel that decides when tasks run and for how long before CPU time is allocated to another task.

 

Processes with higher "nice" levels are nicer -- meaning that they get a smaller share of the processor time. Processes with a lower nice value are less "nice". Nice values range from -20 to +19. Basically, it's a hint to the kernel's scheduler that schedules processes to run about how aggressive it should allow a process be in using up processor time. It's conceptually distinct from the concept of "priority" which enters into the process scheduling a little differently.

 

----

You can do this automatically by opening the Script Editor in the /Applications/AppleScript/ folder and pasting in the following:

 

tell application "Final Cut Pro"

run

end tell

set the_lines to paragraphs of (do shell script "ps -U $USER")

set the_app to "Final Cut Pro"

set the_line to ""

repeat with this_line in the_lines

if this_line contains the_app then

set the_line to this_line

end if

end repeat

if the_line is "" then return

set the_pid to word 1 of the_line

do shell script "renice -20 " & the_pid password "yourpass" with administrator privileges

 

Provide your administrator password in the last line, and save the script as an application in a location easy to access. Open it whenever you want to open Final Cut Pro. More information about the command, including the purpose of the -20, is available in this article.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man8/renice.8.html

Wow!

Will try that as a last resort!

 

The odd thing I find is it settles down after a few plays of a given file,much as it did in 5.5 on PC withequivalent error.

Acept continue replay =kosher.

Eventually.

Weird...

Hi. I'm at a loss here. What does Final Cut Pro have to do with LogicP8? What am I missing? I don't even have final cut pro..Please explain a bit more if you will.. JON

just in case you haven't tried it, sometimes disabling the i/o safety buffer helps with this issue for me.

 

i agree that it seems to be a glitch in the software though, and it also is affected by booting the cpu. i have files that i have played tons of times adding no additional plug-ins (doing some editing and premixing), and not even come close to an overload, and then the next morning on the same computer gotten an overload from just trying to play the project.

hey logician ---

 

I'm up for running some tests as my logic 8 is crashing loads again....and i reckon its kernel/cpu related (see some of the console/crash report below).

 

-- about the Script Editor text, where it says, "Final Cut Pro", should I just add "Logic Pro 8" or Logic Pro.app maybe? and the last line; "yourpass" should be the system admin password - correct?

 

In the activity monitor, the PID is reading 222 (although is 506 in crash report) - at present the Logic cpu usage on a particular song is at 60 to 70% -- (system cpu pref. set to highest). Although I've got an older G4 Powerbook 1.25 ghz, I reckon i could give it a bit more headroom as Logic 7 was running fine with similiar song workloads... and no crashes....

 

This is a crash log from last night --- Im not 100% sure if its a system panic or specifically related to logic -- I'm ruling out RAM as i've been through the hoops with it recently. All seems to be pointing back to Logic 8.

 

 

Any Help or clues you could share would be greatly appreciated, logician ---

 

Many thnx in Adv.

 

John.

 

============================================

 

Host Name: my-name-powerbook-g4-15

Date/Time: 2007-11-13 21:21:34.835 +0100

OS Version: 10.4.10 (Build 8R218)

Report Version: 4

 

Command: Logic Pro

Path: /Applications/Logic Pro.app/Contents/MacOS/Logic Pro

Parent: WindowServer [94]

 

Version: 8.0.0 (1437.23)

Build Version: 12

Project Name: Logic

Source Version: 14372300

 

PID: 506

Thread: 0

 

Exception: EXC_BAD_ACCESS (0x0001)

Codes: KERN_INVALID_ADDRESS (0x0001) at 0x404069f1

 

Thread 0 Crashed:

0 com.apple.logic.pro 0x004c6b2c 0x1000 + 5004076

1 com.apple.AppKit 0x938767c0 -[NSMenu _populate:] + 120

2 com.apple.AppKit 0x938763a4 AppKitMenuEventHandler + 512

3 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x93297934 DispatchEventToHandlers(EventTargetRec*, OpaqueEventRef*, HandlerCallRec*) + 692

4 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x9329708c SendEventToEventTargetInternal(OpaqueEventRef*, OpaqueEventTargetRef*, HandlerCallRec*) + 372

5 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x93296f08 SendEventToEventTargetWithOptions + 40

6 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x933307b0 SendMenuPopulate(MenuData*, OpaqueEventTargetRef*, unsigned long, double) + 212

7 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x93330474 SendMenuOpening(MenuSelectData*, MenuData*, double, unsigned long, __CFDictionary*, unsigned char, unsigned char*) + 220

8 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x93368770 DrawFirstMenu(Point, short, MenuSelectData*) + 180

9 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x93368158 PopUpMenuSelectCore(MenuData*, Point, double, Point, GDevice**, Rect const*, unsigned short, unsigned long, Rect const*, Rect const*, __CFString const*, OpaqueMenuRef**, unsigned short*) + 288

10 com.apple.HIToolbox 0x93367fec _HandlePopUpMenuSelection5 + 364

11 com.apple.AppKit 0x938a1c98 _NSPopUpCarbonMenu2 + 2268

12 com.apple.AppKit 0x938a13ac _NSPopUpCarbonMenu1 + 44

13 com.apple.AppKit 0x938a1368 -[NSCarbonMenuImpl popUpMenu:atLocation:width:forView:withSelectedItem:withFont:] + 224

14 com.apple.prokit 0x964d8c5c -[NSProCarbonMenuImpl popUpMenu:atLocation:width:forView:withSelectedItem:withFont:] + 148

15 com.apple.AppKit 0x93c674dc -[NSSegmentedCell _trackSelectedItemMenu] + 396

16 com.apple.AppKit 0x939af6a0 -[NSSegmentedCell trackMouse:inRect:ofView:untilMouseUp:] + 400

17 com.apple.AppKit 0x93838094 -[NSControl mouseDown:] + 536

18 com.apple.AppKit 0x937d9890 -[NSWindow sendEvent:] + 4616

19 com.apple.prokit 0x964853d0 -[NSProWindow sendEvent:] + 272

20 com.apple.logic.pro 0x00574054 0x1000 + 5714004

21 com.apple.AppKit 0x937828d4 -[NSApplication sendEvent:] + 4172

22 com.apple.logic.pro 0x00515278 0x1000 + 5325432

23 com.apple.AppKit 0x93779d10 -[NSApplication run] + 508

24 com.apple.prokit 0x9646167c NSProApplicationMain + 296

25 com.apple.logic.pro 0x0000332c 0x1000 + 9004

26 com.apple.logic.pro 0x00003030 0x1000 + 8240

WOW.

 

Many thanks logician for the Apple script receipe..... (copied again below)

 

I've turned it into my own custom app. -- have called it 'Logic Hotwire' - gave it an icon... As i'm running Logic 8 on a Powerbook G4 1.25 -- the CPU was getting caned - possibly overworked or too hot? - i dont know. it was causing all sorts of system and Logic freezes and kernel problems.

 

would you believe this has actually worked?! oh joy.

 

MANY MANY thanx logician.....

 

I have edited the script text below to apply for Logic Pro 8 --- copy into your Apple Script program and save as an App. --- its helped me no end -- it may not work for others, so try/use at your own risk.....

 

cheers,

 

John.

 

 

** again as logician says ;

 

===========

-20 refers to the "nice" level of the process. UNIX operating systems have what is called a scheduler, a part of the kernel that decides when tasks run and for how long before CPU time is allocated to another task.

 

Processes with higher "nice" levels are nicer -- meaning that they get a smaller share of the processor time. Processes with a lower nice value are less "nice". Nice values range from -20 to +19. Basically, it's a hint to the kernel's scheduler that schedules processes to run about how aggressive it should allow a process be in using up processor time. It's conceptually distinct from the concept of "priority" which enters into the process scheduling a little differently.

 

----

You can do this automatically by opening the Script Editor in the /Applications/AppleScript/ folder and pasting in the following:

 

tell application "Logic Pro"

run

end tell

set the_lines to paragraphs of (do shell script "ps -U $USER")

set the_app to "Logic Pro"

set the_line to ""

repeat with this_line in the_lines

if this_line contains the_app then

set the_line to this_line

end if

end repeat

if the_line is "" then return

set the_pid to word 1 of the_line

do shell script "renice -20 " & the_pid password "yourpasswordhere" with administrator privileges

 

Provide your administrator password in the last line, and save the script as an application in a location easy to access. Open it whenever you want to open Final Cut Pro (Logic Pro). More information about the command, including the purpose of the -20, is available in this article.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Darwin/Reference/ManPages/man8/renice.8.html

This script is *REALLY* helping me out too!

 

 

NO MORE CORE AUDIO OVERLOADS unless it's really overloading. AND it's improved my loading time significantly and made Logic Generally much snappier.

I can't thank you enough!!!!

 

OH, I'm running a 1.5 Ghz Powerbook, with 512Mb of RAM, and internal audio FWIW....

 

 

 

 

 

 

I just tried this apple script and it REALLY WORKS !!!!!

 

I just started a new project not too long ago and with only 1 track, I was already

getting these crazy spikes. So I ended up here...and after reading this thread I gave it a shot.

 

I used the script and opened the project and the cpu meter barely broke a crack...

THEN, I re-opened the project again w/out the script and the cpu was spiking again.

 

WOW !!!

 

I hope this isn't too good to be true. Someone needs to post a new thread about this !!!!

This script is *REALLY* helping me out too!

 

 

NO MORE CORE AUDIO OVERLOADS unless it's really overloading. AND it's improved my loading time significantly and made Logic Generally much snappier.

I can't thank you enough!!!!

 

OH, I'm running a 1.5 Ghz Powerbook, with 512Mb of RAM, and internal audio FWIW....

 

 

 

 

 

 

I concur. I loading time is super fast now.

Dumb Q's.

 

So am I do understand that by making this apple script and running it before I launch Logic, it'll set this pid to -20 which is telling the processor to run full blast for logic, yes?

 

Am I also to understand that when I quit Logic, the script tells the processor goes back to its normal pid for logic...that is, of course, if I happen to open logic again 'without' running the script first?

 

And this requires no messing about in the terminal, yes?

(no one gazes directly at the Krells power source and lives!)

 

Is this apple script a separate thing from the automator?

 

Like just before I was working on a new tune that I never had a core message and then today I got one. It does the usual thing...play again and its fine....this thing is so anomalous!

And I do set the power settings to high performance and uncheck putting HD's to sleep.

 

Thanx

jon

it is just telling scheduler (the OS part that gives CPU time to processes/threads) - to favor Logic, or anything that has high priority.

I would really be suppressed to see it schedule better over the cores, as it has to do with something completely different.

Another side effect, since logic will get most of the CPU time - others will get less. So if you use rewire, or want to do something else in background (open a webpage, etc, etc) - the system it self will feel less responsive in general.

As to when to run the script, run it after you started logic. At any point.

if you don't like it, you can change the renice value (the -20) to 0 or -3. and rerun the 'reciept' once again.

for those who want more info , open terminal and type in:

man nice

 

and read it yourself.

Hey Jon Tapeworm ---

 

1. As gregj says ; "...it is just telling scheduler (the OS part that gives CPU time to processes/threads) - to favor Logic, or anything that has high priority. ..."

 

2. yes. Its essentially a helper script for Logic - LP8 isnt permanently hijacked or hacked. gregj suggests opening the script after launching logic, but mine opens Logic and sits in the background until I quit it - after closing Logic. There are a few options when saving the script as an Application - see below from the Apple Script Help Menu; (I saved mine as Stay Open)

 

========================

To save a script as an application:

- Choose File > Save.

- Choose a location in which to save the file.

- In the Save dialog, choose "application" from the File Format pop-up menu.

- Enter a name for the script (".app" is the filename extension).

- Select any combination of options:

 

Run Only: Saves the application in a non-editable format. IMPORTANT: You will not be able to edit this script again if you choose Run Only.

 

Startup Screen: Displays dialog with the text from the script's Description field when the script is run. The dialog will also contain Run and Quit buttons that allow the user to stop or continue the script execution.

 

Stay Open: Causes the application to remain active until you quit it. Choose this option if the script contains an idle handler.

 

Requires Classic: Choose this option if you want the application to run on Mac OS 9 systems.

 

- Click Save.

 

=========================

3. I havent gone near Terminal.

 

4. I never use the automator - I have no idea. This is a script you write and make yourself, a custom app. - and its SO easy - you'll be glad you did! -- those nasty red CPU spikes will dissappear in the CPU meter and overall the level will (should) look lower.

 

5. Good Luck, and let us know how you get on ----

 

Cheers,

 

John.

One word:

 

DRA-MA-TIC!!!!!

 

What a difference! I tested it out on a song of my which notoriously sends the Core Audio into overload before I even press play (slight exaggeration, but I think you get me drift). And........

 

Nothing. Not a single spike.

 

I reopened the song without the script and, well, let's just say I won't be running Logic without this script from now on.

 

Thanks to all who made this possible. Everyone should know about this.

Hi. Thanks gregj and zeeb, and of course logician, for your helpful clarifications

 

The one last thing I might ask would be, as you point out, using another application via rewire like Live for example. Also what about allocation affecting 3rd party instruments like Reaktor? If the processor resources are weighted towards running logic then does that mean that, say also using Live or Reaktor at the same time, might put a heavier than normal draw on the processor?

 

I suppose one could simply play with the 'nice' pid settings.... -11, -7 for example, to find the minimum value that the core messages don't occur and ample resources for other apps.

 

I guess this begs the question: why wouldn't Apple simply code Logic and/or OSX to use a lower pid and then maybe these overload messages would never have been an issue. Unless, however, it is coded where Apple feels is a good balance between logic priorities and other applications.

 

 

I'm definitely saving this thread so I can reference it and apply the script. Many Many thanks.

 

jon

Edited November 18, 2007 by Tapeworm

NICE!!!!! goodbye core overloads!

Very impressive - I've never attempted anything like this with a Mac, but can't wait to give it a try I wonder if there is a similar "script" for PCs?

so the only thing we need to change on that script is the password, correct?

Yeah, that should be all you need to adjust, unless you want to play with the "nice" number as stated before.....

So far so good.

So far so good.

Nope. Still getting overloads.

Nope. Still getting overloads.

 

I wouldn't say this is the cure for the core overloads by any means...but it really does keep those cpu meters down.

 

I just tried running logic with and without using the script again today...and WOW...the cpu are much much more tamed when running the script.

Well, I C & P'd the script and left my password in quotes ( I did not know whether they were supposed to belong or not). I saved it as an application and as a 'start up'

 

I ran it, L8 opened but then I got an error window with a bunch of arcane gibberish in it. Then I redid the script without the quotes, but then I got another message saying something or other. So I redid it with the quotes again and I didn't get an error and it appeared to run.

So I opened up one of those demo tunes that always will give me a few overload messages the first couple of times I play it after a cold boot. I still got the overloads.

 

I did open up the activity monitor but I have no idea what to look for. The column on the left that says "process id" which I assume is 'pid', said something like 277 for logic so I have no idea whether this script thing is even working or not.

 

Also, I see that the when I ran the script, it opens logic but then it doesn't open up on the desktop...it still the finder. I had to go and click on Logic in the dock for it to come up on the desktop.

 

So..color me confused

 

But I'll try it again with an eye out on the cpu meter and see if its runs less.

 

Hmmmm maybe its the audio core that needs this rather than logic

I went back and redid the script form scratch, typing it in myself and it runs.

 

Logic is new to me so I don't have a bunch of consistant projects to use as a 'control'. However theres one demo song..LeDisko, that'll always give me an overload in exactly the same spots. They go away after a few plays and they appear after a cold boot. So thats what I did and I ran the script and there was no change. The cpu usage was about the same if not even a tad more.

 

I also tried it on a new project of mine. The cpu registers just about the same with or without. I guess the voodoo don't doodoo for me.