Logic Pro 9 is Universal Binary

Power PC guys might have a little breathing room.

 

Check this out:

 

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=2091132&tstart=0

good news for some, bad news for the others

 

universal binary means bigger apps which load slower

 

snow leopard will be faster because it's not UB

universal binary means bigger apps which load slower

 

They don't load slower, where did you get that? Code that is not used, is not loaded anyway. And for an app like Logic the it difference in size on the drive is <10% (less then 100MB), barely an issue especially when you consider that a full Logic installation can be in the double-digit GB range...

You are both partially correct. Universal binaries are indeed larger than an Intel specific variant. This is manifested by an increase in memory space needed to load the application. UB is not the most efficient way, its prime focus is on compatibility.

 

Just remember, in order to manipulate an application, it has to first be loaded into memory. So technically, a UB does require slightly more resources than an Intel-only binary.

 

Now if Apple would please chime in on whether or not the pro apps have been compiled as UB. I'm not happy to be hearing about hardware compatibility from multiple, third party sources. Some of the assertions I've heard that all G5's are ancient beasts destined for the scrap heap is absurd. My G5 Quad (3.5 years old) is nowhere near on its last leg. I'd sure as hell prefer making music on my Quad rather than on my Macbook Pro Intel C2Duo.

 

If Apple failed to offer compatibility, which would be insanely stupid given their evangelizing of Universal Binaries-- and their installed base, I'd have to consider looking at another platform based almost entirely on principle.

 

So Dave, do you have any info direct from Apple as to how the universal binary issue plays out?

So Dave, do you have any info direct from Apple as to how the universal binary issue plays out?

 

I'm afraid I don't.

For the record, I've just contacted Apple directly-- their Logic support team is ignorant to the Universal Binary PPC/Intel compatibility issue.

 

Dave, seeing that you've written the book on the new software- could you go to your applications folder, right (or apple) click the Logic 9 icon, go to Get Info and tell us what 'Kind' of application it is listed as. If it states the app is Application (Universal), those of us who are running perfectly capable G5 Quads may not be left out of the upgrade path.

 

If we are left out, Apple must realize that many people would jump ship to other sequencers (potentially even back to the PC). It would also represent a distinct competitive advantage to Logic's rivals. Afterall, what better way to erode Apple's installed Logic user base than for competing sequencers to offer PPC support and UB compatibility for a couple more years? We all know Leopard doesn't die after Snow Leopard hits the shelves-- there will likely be a 2-3 year transition across the user base-- even with the low cost of Snow Leopard upgrade.

For the record, I've just contacted Apple directly-- their Logic support team is ignorant to the Universal Binary PPC/Intel compatibility issue.

 

Dave, seeing that you've written the book on the new software- could you go to your applications folder, right (or apple) click the Logic 9 icon, go to Get Info and tell us what 'Kind' of application it is listed as. If it states the app is Application (Universal), those of us who are running perfectly capable G5 Quads may not be left out of the upgrade path.

 

If we are left out, Apple must realize that many people would jump ship to other sequencers (potentially even back to the PC). It would also represent a distinct competitive advantage to Logic's rivals. Afterall, what better way to erode Apple's installed Logic user base than for competing sequencers to offer PPC support and UB compatibility for a couple more years? We all know Leopard doesn't die after Snow Leopard hits the shelves-- there will likely be a 2-3 year transition across the user base-- even with the low cost of Snow Leopard upgrade.

Very interesting-- that 150.7 MB size is very much smaller than the current 8.0.2 universal binary. 8.0.2 weighs in at 346.5 MB.

 

I know that Snow Leopard has put an emphasis on smaller, more compact binaries but wow.

 

While it kind of diverges off topic, the "Run under Rosetta" is an interesting piece of the pie as well-- this allows PowerPC binaries to be run on an Intel machine. I'm wondering if Apple will be keeping Rosetta to allow PowerPC-based apps to run under Snow Leopard. No doubt the devs currently in the beta already know the answer to this. This point will definitely impact some of the user community that may be using older apps etc.

 

Im personally holding off on purchasing the upgrade until some brave soul confirms they have successfully installed the new Logic Suite on a G5 Quad PPC or older. Let's hope everyone's assumptions about PPC compatibility are correct.

This brings up a good point that apple must consider as do us engineers. That little open with Rosetta button is extremely powerful as it let's new DAWs run older plugins (albiet they will not run as eficiently as thier newer counterparts). Say you want to run a Waves compressor, but you have not upgrded since 4 (I believe that was ppc only), if you run logic as ppc, you can run that whole suite. Otherwise Logic won't recognize the plugs.

 

On another note, I know people who are happily running Pro-Tools TDM on OS 8. There is a good job for any abondoned G5s out there. I net the old pro tools hardware is cheap now too.

 

Just a thought.

Leko

Im personally holding off on purchasing the upgrade until some brave soul confirms they have successfully installed the new Logic Suite on a G5 Quad PPC or older. Let's hope everyone's assumptions about PPC compatibility are correct.

 

If I had the extra cash right now, I'd take the plunge. Wouldn't really be a gamble because if it didn't work I'd just have LP9 for when I bought an Intel machine. So, no money lost in the longer run, really.

 

I think if we give it a few more days, someone who bought it for their Intel machine will try an install on their older G5 that's been handed down to the wife or kid, (DKGross, I'm looking at you!). So let's wait and see.

... someone who bought it for their Intel machine will try an install on their older G5 that's been handed down to the wife or kid...

 

Well to be fair to everyone, I'll be the guinea pig. Its going on my Macbook Pro anyway (which has become my go to machine in the past few months)...so what the hell. The upgrade is currently running on my G5 Quad.

 

The Logic Pro app just installed without a hitch...everything is progressing smoothly...now will it run the full feature-set?

 

I'll post back shortly...

may I be the first to say that you freakin' rock for doing that for us!

The Tech Specs state precisely: "Mac computer with an Intel processor". This means, it is NOT a universal binary. In the Info Window it won't say (Universal) no more in the column "Kind", it will say "Intel Only". And the behavior will be just like any other Intel-only Application. I am not 100% sure, but isnt Photoshop Intel-Only? I mean as an example how Logic will behave now.

So ladies and gents... I'm currently editing a 35 track mix in Logic Pro 9 on a PPC G5 Quad. Put the heart medication away.

 

Btw, I think everybody is gonna dig pedalboard- very nice on synth parts. I'd be surprised if this feature alone didn't result in a slew of converts.

 

Now on to the meat of the feature set. Will post soon...

Flex mode is a very nice add...can't wait to use this on a remix featuring a certain Swedish vocalist.

 

Environment looks unchanged...some very nice UI touches...channel EQs look really nice. Looking forward to digging deeper...I'll post back if I run into major issues. Again, regardless of the compatibility concerns, LP9 is running smoothly on my PPC G5 Quad.

 

Have fun with the update everyone.

The Tech Specs state precisely: "Mac computer with an Intel processor". This means, it is NOT a universal binary.

 

Actually all it means is that Apple is unwilling to support the PPC users. Doesn't mean Logic 9 won't run on PPC. But if you try and it doesn't work, or if you have issues or bugs, you're on your own.

damian, you're my hero.

 

Let us know if it runs into a snag!

Dare I say, dare I say...processor utilization looks far more distributed across the 4 cores on my Quad. Things almost look in sync.

 

Running Trilogy under PPC on Logic Pro 9...seriously, how funny is that?

Doesn't mean Logic 9 won't run on PPC. But if you try and it doesn't work, or if you have issues or bugs, you're on your own.

Well, to be truthful that's not too different from how it usually is. Except this time the chances of it breaking when an update comes are probably much higher!

Running Trilogy under PPC on Logic Pro 9...seriously, how funny is that?

 

That little sentence is the most useful thing (to me) I've read here all day!

Many thanks Damian.

Well to be fair to everyone, I'll be the guinea pig. Its going on my Macbook Pro anyway (which has become my go to machine in the past few months)...so what the hell. The upgrade is currently running on my G5 Quad.

 

The Logic Pro app just installed without a hitch...everything is progressing smoothly...now will it run the full feature-set?

 

I'll post back shortly...

 

Damian, you are a superstar! I'm getting my copy tomorrow and going to get it on my MBP, but I will watch your posts like a HAWK! Thanks, dude!

You bring up a good point fader8-- all of us PPC users knew we were going to become dinosaurs eventually. We're now locked into our own little Leopard 10.5 fiefdom until our G5s sputter their way into oblivion. Which really isn't a bad place to be for the next 2-3 years. The nice thing is, rather than be castaways, we can enjoy our time with Logic Pro 9.

 

And with that...my G5 Quad uttered a 'Final Install Succeeded' banner...while I was working on a project. So yes, update using the first disc and get back to work while you install all of the new content in the background.

 

If any new issues arise, I'll be sure to post on my travails.

 

Now where is that OSC support is was asking for 2 years ago...

 

actually all it means is that Apple is unwilling to support the PPC users. Doesn't mean Logic 9 won't run on PPC. But if you try and it doesn't work, or if you have issues or bugs, you're on your own.

 

Yes Dave this sounds about right, I must admit. However, I heard that it is very likely that a .x-Version is going to change that, most likely after snowleo has been released. Whatever way you turn it, purchasing Logic 9 for a PPC machine would be risky business. If you have a last generation G5 Dual or Quad and really urge the TIme-Stretch Features or maybe the Amp Designer and will upgrade machine sooner or later anyways, then why not. If you really plan to do work with a combo of Logic 9 and your Powerbook G4, you are on the wrong track. Just my 2 cents...

actually all it means is that Apple is unwilling to support the PPC users. Doesn't mean Logic 9 won't run on PPC. But if you try and it doesn't work, or if you have issues or bugs, you're on your own.

 

Yes Dave this sounds about right, I must admit. However, I heard that it is very likely that a .x-Version is going to change that, most likely after snowleo has been released. Whatever way you turn it, purchasing Logic 9 for a PPC machine would be risky business. If you have a last generation G5 Dual or Quad and really urge the TIme-Stretch Features or maybe the Amp Designer and will upgrade machine sooner or later anyways, then why not. If you really plan to do work with a combo of Logic 9 and your Powerbook G4, you are on the wrong track. Just my 2 cents...

 

I agree. Working with gear that's below the minimum requirements is risky. From Apple's standpoint, you're on your own.

Glad to see there's light at the end of the tunnel.... Thanks Damian from all us G5'rs

actually all it means is that Apple is unwilling to support the PPC users. Doesn't mean Logic 9 won't run on PPC. But if you try and it doesn't work, or if you have issues or bugs, you're on your own.

 

Yes Dave this sounds about right, I must admit. However, I heard that it is very likely that a .x-Version is going to change that, most likely after snowleo has been released. Whatever way you turn it, purchasing Logic 9 for a PPC machine would be risky business. If you have a last generation G5 Dual or Quad and really urge the TIme-Stretch Features or maybe the Amp Designer and will upgrade machine sooner or later anyways, then why not. If you really plan to do work with a combo of Logic 9 and your Powerbook G4, you are on the wrong track. Just my 2 cents...

 

I agree. Working with gear that's below the minimum requirements is risky. From Apple's standpoint, you're on your own.

 

Any reason this would be unhealthy?

 

Install Logic 9 on PPC G5. Use it for fun, not serious projects, in the meantime getting to learn the interface, etc, so when I'm ready to upgrade to INtel machine, I won't have to learn L9 from scratch. Keep using Logic 8 for the piggy-bank fillers.

 

Does this sound unstable to anyone? Hmmmm....

I think if we give it a few more days, someone who bought it for their Intel machine will try an install on their older G5 that's been handed down to the wife or kid, (DKGross, I'm looking at you!). So let's wait and see.

 

actually..there's no PPC's left in the house. The wife got a new 4 core Nehalem

 

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actually..there's no PPC's left in the house. The wife got a new 4 core Nehalem -

 

 

so, d.k...you're whole family is gangsta

actually all it means is that Apple is unwilling to support the PPC user...... But if you try and it doesn't work, or if you have issues or bugs, you're on your own.

 

So you mean when using the latest Apple HW you're not left on our own and Apple is willing to suport you? Like fixing bugs regularly and responding to user feedback?

Don't think so